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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

1000 replies

KnottyAuty · 06/11/2025 06:50

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 14:23

"people making a fuss about these tiny things injure the whole movement of people fighting for the stuff thats actually about safety like single sex spaces."

It is because of the campaigning for safety, such as single sex provisions, that we have learned that use of pronouns is harmful. Even Dr Cass mentions that it is not a neutral act to use pronouns of the wrong sex for someone.

The use of pronouns was how activists such as Ivy/McKinnon convinced sporting organisations to include male people with transgender identities in female single sex sports. The use of pronouns has been used directly to harm female people.

If women cannot use accurate language at all times to describe what they need and to raise issues in ways that are very clear and relevant, that movement fails.

EuclidianGeometryFan · 06/11/2025 14:23

Beowulfa · 06/11/2025 11:05

OP does not say what age her daughter is. As a contrary teen I would have delighted in addressing this bloke as MISS Smith with particularly sarcastic emphasis on the Miss. Many parents reported on a thread recently that younger teens are now dismissing NB/trans woo as tedious attentioin-seeking nonsense. Miss Smith might find a room full of sneering disdainful teenage girls less fun than he imagined.

Whilst I would never tell my DD to be rude to a teacher, wouldn't it be great if this were the outcome? 😂

It is very hard for a teacher to police the pupils' tone of voice. If you are respected in the classroom, have natural authority and presence, and a good relationship with the pupils, you might say "don't be so rude" or "mind your attitude", and it might go well for you.

If the pupils despise you, and you issue a detention, you will be on a hiding to nothing and will merely be undermining yourself. How are you going to explain that to the Head and parents? "She used a sarcastic voice to me"?

Teachers very, very quickly learn that you have to pick your battles in a classroom.

Perhaps OP's DD could discuss the matter with her fellow classmates and come up with a united strategy.

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 14:24

I will accept not using male terms for a man who doesn't want me to. I'd not use any words that suggest he is female. That seems an adequate compromise.

HonoraryScouser · 06/11/2025 14:24

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 06/11/2025 14:17

You don't get to call someone a name they're not comfortable with just because you don't agree with it.

Do you not get that this has to work both ways?

You don't get to demand others use language they are not comfortable with just because you don't agree with their right to say no.

Unless it works equally it's nothing nice, it's just pure coercive control.

It's really not the same thing, sorry. It's not coercion, it's respect for people and how they identify.

Shelby2010 · 06/11/2025 14:24

On the positive side, having a transgender teacher will put a dampener on teenagers seeing gender identity as something trendy & rebellious!

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 14:26

HonoraryScouser · 06/11/2025 14:24

It's really not the same thing, sorry. It's not coercion, it's respect for people and how they identify.

Forcing people to comply doesn't teach respect, it just teaches submission and compliance.

It may work in the short term, but long term, it tends to backfire.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:26

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 13:55

Naomi Cunningham is the barrister arguing a nurse's employment tribunal case that female people should have access to changing rooms at work that fully exclude all male people. Dr Upton is a man who demanded access to the female single sex changing rooms in the hospital under that NHS trust's policy.

At the start of the trial, it was agreed that people did not have to use the language demanded by Dr Upton as long as it was relevant to the case.

It made the case much clearer in doing so.

Do you believe that Naomi Cunningham should or should not have been allowed to use male language to describe Dr Upton instead of the language that Dr Upton demanded?

The fact that you speak about these people as if they are household names is a surprise to me. Do you spend a lot of time reading up about all this kind of thing?

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 14:27

Women on this board have spent years 'reading up' on this kind of thing, Jade.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 14:27

BloominNora · 06/11/2025 14:19

No they aren't - titles are a conference of status, not sex.

Titles denote your societal status - Married / Not Married / PHD / Medical Degree / Lectureship / Military / Nobility etc, they have absolutely nothing to do with biological sex beyond their social construction.

You obviously went to a different school than I did then.

I don't agree with you that they are not sex related. But it is beside the point. You get to choose how you use language. Others should feel free not to be pressured to use even socially constructed female language for any male person.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:27

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 14:27

Women on this board have spent years 'reading up' on this kind of thing, Jade.

Goodness.

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 14:28

Social transition – this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.

Cass Report. p 62

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 14:28

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:26

The fact that you speak about these people as if they are household names is a surprise to me. Do you spend a lot of time reading up about all this kind of thing?

Yes. I read up about all this kind of thing.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 06/11/2025 14:29

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:27

Goodness.

She’s not wrong. We have. Years and fucking years.

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 14:29

HonoraryScouser · 06/11/2025 14:24

It's really not the same thing, sorry. It's not coercion, it's respect for people and how they identify.

Why is how a teacher identifies relevant to their role as a teacher? Why does it need to be considered at all?

Irememberwhenitwasallfieldsroundhere · 06/11/2025 14:30

I just wanted to say I'm so sorry for your dd. This is compelled speech and I hope you have some advice here which allows her to stick to her principles. I'm so sick of this gaslighting bullshit.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 14:30

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:14

I have got carried away @KnottyAuty

Reasons Why a Pupil Should Not and Cannot Be Compelled to Use Wrong-Sex Pronouns

Gender identity is a subjective belief system and ideology, not an objective fact It is contested and not shared by the majority of people, who recognise sex as binary and immutable. Compelling anyone, especially a pupil in a school setting, to use pronouns or titles that contradict biological sex amounts to forced participation. This violates legal protections, safeguarding principles, and basic human rights....

Point by point....

1. It Enforces a Contested Belief System on Others

Gender identity is an ideology akin to a religious or philosophical belief, not a universal truth. Forcing pupils to use wrong sex pronouns requires them to affirm and participate in this belief, even if they hold gender-critical views. Schools cannot compel adherence to one ideology while ignoring others, as this discriminates against GC beliefs, which are protected under equality laws.
In an our society, no one is forced to practice or affirm others' religions or ideologies, so a pupil isn't required to recite prayers or affirm supernatural claims. Just the same, GC pupils should not be coerced into affirming that a male can be a woman, as this erodes mutual respect and tolerance.

2. Power Imbalance and Coercion Make It Abusive

Teachers hold authority over pupils, with the ability to issue detentions, behavior points, or other punishments for non compliance. This creates a coercive environment where pupils fear repercussions for not participating in the teacher's ideology, turning education into indoctrination.
Such compulsion is Orwellian, compelling people to parrot lies as truth under threat, which undermines free thought and expression. It's not voluntary politeness but enforced speech, which can lead to broader societal harm, like court cases where victims are forced to use wrong-sex pronouns for their abusers.

3. Safeguarding Risks to Children

Requiring pupils to ignore their senses (spotting a male in the females) dulls instincts and teaches them to disregard potential threats, which is a major safeguarding failure. This is especially dangerous in a girls' school, where an authority figure insisting on female pronouns could normalise boundary violations and increase vulnerability to grooming or exploitation.

Pronouns act like Rohypnol, numbing natural perceptions of sex differences. Forcing this on children prioritises an adult's feelings over pupils' safety and mental well-being, distracting from learning and causing cognitive dissonance.

4. Legal and Policy Protections Prohibit Compulsion

No one can be legally compelled to use preferred pronouns if it conflicts with their beliefs. Government guidance and ministers have confirmed that schools cannot enforce this, as it violates protections for philosophical beliefs under human rights laws. Pupils have the right to express GC views without punishment, and schools must accommodate this, not suppress it.
If a school enforces wrong-sex pronouns, it signals intolerance for GC beliefs, breaching equality duties.

5. It Undermines Education and Mental Focus

Pupils are in school to learn, not navigate ideological minefields. Constant mental gymnastics, avoiding natural language or forcing unnatural pronouns diverts energy from education and creates unnecessary stress. This is amplified in a power-imbalanced setting, where fear of punishment could lead to self-censorship or isolation from peers.

6. Majority Non Agreement and Broader Societal Harm

Most people do not subscribe to gender ideology - surveys show widespread recognition of sex as binary. Compelling minority beliefs on the majority erodes social harmony, as it prioritizes one group's demands over others'. This can lead to resentment, as the ideology requires everyone to play along and be nice unlike other beliefs that don't demand universal participation.
It sets a precedent for further issues, such as males accessing female spaces which directly impacts safety and privacy. In a girls' school, hiring a male teacher who demands female pronouns already blurs these boundaries. I see red flags.

7. Anti-Science and Morally Dubious

Sex is a biological fact, not a feeling. Forcing pupils to affirm otherwise promotes anti science rubbish, teaching them to lie about observable reality. This is morally wrong, as it prioritises adult validation over children's truthfulness and development.

This is absolute garbage. You as a parent should be rejecting this at the highest level for all these reasons.

This is before we ask what the schools policy is about trans identifying males in a female only school? I assume you have asked....

@HonoraryScouser please read these and tell me which ones are wrong and why?

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 14:30

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 06/11/2025 14:29

She’s not wrong. We have. Years and fucking years.

I am waiting for the negative remark now.

PastaAllaNorma · 06/11/2025 14:31

BloominNora · 06/11/2025 14:08

Agree about He / She - I would just use They instead - but Miss / Mr / Mrs are not pronouns, they are titles which are conferred by society and have nothing to do with someone's sex.

Of course they do. Mr is the title for a man. Miss/Ms/Mrs are titles for a woman.

Mx is a recent entry to the list and is neutral.

EuclidianGeometryFan · 06/11/2025 14:31

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:27

Goodness.

That is why we are here. To learn and share and keep informed. Sometimes to coordinate action, or help each other with practical issues. Sometimes just to vent anger at the madness of it all.

You realise this is a board especially for these purposes?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 14:31

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 14:29

Why is how a teacher identifies relevant to their role as a teacher? Why does it need to be considered at all?

Read my previous quote - that’s why.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 14:32

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:26

The fact that you speak about these people as if they are household names is a surprise to me. Do you spend a lot of time reading up about all this kind of thing?

This was a very widely reported case though. Did you not read the reporting of it? Would you like me to post the links so that you can understand the case I am refering to?

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 14:33

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:26

The fact that you speak about these people as if they are household names is a surprise to me. Do you spend a lot of time reading up about all this kind of thing?

Either you aren’t in the UK, or you never see MSM front pages and your algorithms are telling on you.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 06/11/2025 14:34

HonoraryScouser · 06/11/2025 14:24

It's really not the same thing, sorry. It's not coercion, it's respect for people and how they identify.

Are you in the habit of extending respect to people with no reciprocal respect for you?

Why does a trans person's language choices matter and mine don't?

Why this seeing me as owing this one sided 'respect' (by which you do actually mean submission) without them needing to in any way reciprocate? Why do they not need to equally respect GC people and how they identify?

What's this lack of equality about?

usedtobeaylis · 06/11/2025 14:34

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 13:49

So you organisation forces gender ideological beliefs on everyone?

It sounds like they don't employ 'GC' people. Weeds them out right at the start.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 14:35

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 14:33

Either you aren’t in the UK, or you never see MSM front pages and your algorithms are telling on you.

My algorithms feed me news about things like Gaza, natural disasters and stabbings on trains.

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