"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 4

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct, AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, witness for the respondents, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, witness for the respondents, NHS trust HR.

Shades of Dr Uptons "contemporaneous" notes there.

TT

Mine is a once-only offer ☺

Perhaps you'll be able to resume next week? 😉

Agree, and when doing it, write complaint in big letters and use the word regularly, because otherwise you're told it wasn't a complaint because you hadn't said it was one. Watch out if they 'summarise' it before they start to investigate too, because things mysteriously vanish.

Agreed, trouble is this is costing the NHS i.e. us a lot of money to defend (look at the Sandie Tribunal figures) even before we get into compensation.

exactly!

But without the recording her "notes" would be considered stronger evidence that the nurses recollections

TT

AM Pat Winter did research re legislation. review then up the line.
NF is anyone the ‘owner’ of the policy? Or responsibility?
AM it’s sat within the workforce directorate leadership

NF there’s a ref to EHRC guidance? How familiar were you?
AM I’d check with Gillian.

Did someone say up thread that it was the comments on the Mail article that upset TA, not the article itself? Would have been around 1230 as that's why she needed a break.

Touché, Ladies!

What in her notes said things that's weren't in the transcript please?

My reading of this is not that she's too incompetent to determine whether the transcript matches the recording, but that she trying to suggest the recording itself is inaccurate (doctored).

NF is anyone the ‘owner’ of the policy? Or responsibility?
AM it’s sat within the workforce directorate leadership

I so wish NF had followed that up with 'And what the fuck does that mean?'

I'm getting a flashback to Andrew Hochhauser and the long winded explanation of how Twitter works. 😱

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1983864886204477662

But think how much it'll save if the NHS start questioning how much management they need and realise how much not doing their jobs will cost them. Who knows, they may even apply that lesson to patient safety and retaining staff and maybe even, y'know, just as suggestion, treating them decently.

@NoBinturongsHereMate I think this is getting a bit paranoid tbh. She's under oath.

Or she added things to the notes from different meetings (or thin air).

Understanding the appropriate channels and saying 'official complaint' lots helps.

When a complaint isn't a complaint is a whole world of bullshit.

We've just had a complaint upheld for my son because of admin jobsworths who cant do their job and went against the referral of a consultant.

Is there any evidence to suggest that Darlington tried to settle before the tribunal?

Because no one’s ever lied or bent the truth under oath? Happens al the time.

Not just not in the transcript - contradicting what was in the transcript - eg that Bethany Hutchison had said that Rose Henderson should use the disabled toilets, and that she was using male pronouns a lot. In transcript, BH doesn't suggest disabled toilet, and minimises use of pronouns. KD's CSA history was not mentioned at the meeting.
Also don't forget that the transcript is verbatim and TA's notes are after the meeting, in ignorance of the fact that there was a recording.

From TT:
NF Would you agree it contains material not said within mtg all
TA What do you mean
NF Reads c BH abused as child
TA Can't correlate between transcript. That was what I recall was said.
NF Your position is that was said.
TA position is that I recall
NF Reads c BH saying should RH change in disabled toilet.
TA Nobody should be forced to change in disabled.
NF But you recall this. And BH using male pronouns for RH. But if you hear recording see BH minimising using pronouns.
This portrays BH
as dominating meeting and characterises her as unreasonable and even transphobic
TA I haven't said BH transphobic. This is my account of mtg. Never met BH, hadn't formed views of her.

TT

NF these are pages from claimants. P 271 what is this?
AM my twitter account. A personal account. The image is for a campaign 100 Faces re protected characteristic journeys. Page 2021/2 Pride messages.
AM they’re retweets. Had an interest as the Trust wanted to introduce the Rainbow badge at the time.

p 277?
AM Colleagues must have searched my account re references for women.
NF LGBT+ is a network group
AM we also have an organisational account.
NF your title is Head of Workforce Experience what’s the difference to others?

AM a range including talent management and including EDI. Andrew Thacker is our Director and a range of others.
NF Gillian Bailey reports to you?
AM yes. I have 2 workforce experience managers also but not in that chain of command.
NF in the management structure, how many roles are there in the Directorate below Ms Bailey?
AM workforce experience officer one role.

AM the officer looks after EDI and also does organisation development.
NF so for a grievance , is that role below Ms Bailey the person who would advise on process?
AM yes

Being under oath doesn't mean she telling the truth. Dr Upton was under oath when he said he was a biological female

I wonder if Wes Streeting is following this case in any detail, or if he's depending on his civil servants to brief him🤔 Would love to be a fly on the wall in his office!

Sorry to hear that, but not surprised. Dh & DS reckon they've got it sorted though. They're planning to identify as women from now on.

I think she added in knowledge gained from other places that were not said at the meeting - so not contemporaneous