Far right women

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Katie Lam and Pochin from Reform spouting stuff that makes me feel sick. Looking at all the glossy goons like Kristi Noem and Pam Bondi surrounding Trump. I am predicting that Erica Kirk will be the first woman President or perhaps more likely Vance’s Vice President. I’m not talking about women who would like to pay less tax, or Theresa May, but those who rise in extreme right wing circles.

I’m working my way extremely slowly through Andrea Dworkin’s ‘Right Wing Women’. Has anyone else read it? I don’t have any conclusions about this yet…

Who wouldn't be tempted by simple answers to all the problems that match their world view? Vote for me, and you can have unlimited chocolate with someone unworthy paying has a certain appeal for me.

Exactly.

on that score, i recently learnt via something I heard Barrister Dr Anna Loufti in, that the UK is the most liberal, accepting and free country for any other culture or religion to move to and continue to live in the ways of their country of origin.

whilst this is indeed progressive and perhaps to be celebrated, it also allows regressive practises to continue, namely how women and children are treated, as per Dame Louise Casey’s 2016 review:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80c4fded915d74e6230579/The_Casey_Review_Report.pdf

at the very least please do read the foreword of that.

China is doing that at the moment, it will be ...an education, to see how they manage their empire.

Last para here of a mic drop for me:

"our"?! 🤢 Are you another man lurking on her? I'm sure I'm. It the only woman on this board who is no one's property for them to protect thanks very much

That post does sound like an episode of Vikings

The problem is ALL the parties have massive issues.

So Greens and Reform are doing simplistic populism, the SNP has being doing that for ages too. Plaid Cymru again plays the nationalist card.

Tories messed up this country for 13 years now pretending it never happened and none of it is their fault.
Labour finally get power in Westminster then immediately mess it up. However that failure is rooted in their issues in local government and in Wales and their own internal culture.

Lib Dems claim to be the most practical, but they can't even defend free speech. Just like the other parties they are inconsistent. When they have power which they do in local councils and in the coalition they are not perfect either.

The big issue I can see is we need to be grown up about this. A lot of people want to blame individuals for HOW they vote.

The Greens and Reform could not peddle simple solutions if Labour, Lib Dems and Tories were not massively flawed. Their arguments are also simplistic - trust us we know what we are doing. We are competent. Look at our policies. The problem is the actual EVIDENCE of day to day life in the UK does not back this idea up. We have had a huge surge in migration in the last 5 years - has it made this country massively better? No it hasn't. The NHS crisis, housing, economy are all bad.

Many of the people voting Reform are working class people who don't follow politics closely. They vote on what might seem superficial characteristics. However my thinking is the British working class is rather more discerning than they so called superiors would like to think. They have power over who rules if they choose to use it.

If any party wants to win they have to earn the trust of a lot of people.

The fact is people are not voting Reform because they are Nazis or even because they think Farage is amazing.

They just think Farage is the least worst option right now. He maybe lying, but his lies seem more honest than the stuff the other parties are saying.

The other huge factor fueling Farage's rise beside the failure of other parties is the attempt to demonise those who vote for him. This will utterly fail as a tactic in the UK as it has elsewhere.

The only thing that can stop populism is competent effective government that delivers for ordinary people not name calling. If Labour gets results they will be re-elected if not people will go for Reform or the Greens. We should not BLAME them for this. Their choice is actually a rational move if you think about the wider context.

Exactly. The people to blame for people voting Reform are not the Reform voters, it is the Labour Government.

It also suggests that DEI is used yo punish British people for crimes of not their ancestors but their historic overlords

This! Working class Brits weren't responsible for colonisation nor the slave trade. Arguably, we are ourselves a colonised people because we've still not ousted the Norman aristocrats who took over in 1066.

Ironically, the fact we have been colonised (so foreign ruling class, not mass migration) is also used to claim there is no indigenous British population.

What orbit said.

When it comes to describing indigenous people of this Island I think it’s a pretty nuanced subject that one cannot truly nail down in one or two posts, but it is my understanding at least that Cheddar man, one of Britains oldest ancestors was essentially ‘black’ as you would describe a person today. The people who inhabit the islands today are derived from a group of people called the Saxons who migrated here from continental Europe, and even amongst the Saxons, some were black. The BBC did an excellent documentary/drama recently on the Anglo Saxons recently that is rather entertaining and definitely corrected me on what I thought I knew about them growing up. Would definitely recommend.

You might find it worth reading this https://www.historyextra.com/period/norman/king-and-conqueror-true-story-real-history/ because as with any historical adaptation it had to be the edited highlights overlaid with a 21st century perspective.

IMHO the trouble is that there's so much we don't know about what really happened in history that each generation puts its own spin on it. I'd love to travel forward in time and see what the official consensus is on this period in 100 years time. And yes, I do believe we won't have destroyed ourselves.

Cheddar man would have had a darker skin tone, in line with all north Western Europe hunter gathers, due to it being easier for them to get vitamin D in their diet. As that became more difficult, skin tones lightened to enable better absorption from the sun. That happened across all of northern Europe.

Reading this as native Brits being 'black' as we understand the term today, while Anglo Saxons then colonising with 'whiteness' is totally ridiculous.

Well, this is one of my bugbears, because the discussion on FWR is usually framed as how do we stop populism?

I know populism can go off the rails if you're not careful, but it's my firm view that democracy needs a certain amount of populism to function. Even if it's not possible for politicians to always give the voters what they want, there should be a bias towards meeting the voters half way, giving them what they want if it's workable, and talking to them like adults when what they want isn't workable. Because democracy has to rest on popular consent.

What we've predominantly got in the political class is a kind of anti-populism. Listen to high priests of the regime like Alastair Campbell and Neil Kinnock, and they'll openly say that the purpose of politics is to save the people from their own base instincts.

To translate: we need an expert caste to rule us for our own good. We will eat our broccoli and like it.

We're a broad church on FWR, and I think many here would be happy with that if the expert political caste would recognise what a woman is. Then there are those of us who think, if they've lied to us about something that basic, what else are they lying about, and spot parallels with other things.

I think the post-1997 UK regime is on its last legs, for a whole number of reasons. But you can see the fragility in the attempts to manage the narrative. The definition of disinformation, in the hands of people like Morgan McSweeney (look up the "Centre for Countering Digital Hate") has now been expanded to include things that are actually true but unhelpful to the government.

This brittle orthodoxy really is end of regime stuff. It makes Starmer look like a sort of Erich Honecker of Blairism.

Cheddar man was dark skinned and pale eyes; he was European, not an African migrant and lived 10,000 years ago when Britain was not an island and Doggarland was gradually submerging. The Saxons didn’t arrive until the 5th Century and they intermarried, not displaced the population of the time. They were also only one group to invade and colonise parts of Britain and take slaves.

The fact you think the BBC’s drama on the Saxons was in anyway a documentary speaks volumes.

I find the ‘populism’ tag quite interesting. It feels like a centre left narrative that keeps the status quo.

It’s reiterated by institutions eg the BBC and others so they can keep power.

There are very few populations anywhere in the world that have no other groups interbreeding with them over thousands of years. But would you deny any other indigenous population exists?

Sometimes I find it fascinating to watch the Hugo Rifkind show on Times Radio, because it's like watching a dinner party of extremely privileged centre-left people who don't know anyone who isn't also extremely privileged and centre-left.

So a few weeks ago, after Reform conference, Hugo was speaking with Sebastian Payne and Charlotte Evers, and Charlotte reported what a pollster had told her, that they were trying to get a demographic model of the typical Reform voters, and they couldn't do it because the typical Reform voter just looks like the typical voter.

The panel then had a Principal Skinner moment where they spent about a minute stroking their chins and wondering "are we the weirdos?" before concluding that, no, they were perfectly normal and everyone else was out of touch.

They spent most of the next hour chortling about how naff the conference was, with special attention to Andrea Jenkyns in her sparkly jumpsuit belting out the song she wrote for Eurovision, and wasn't it all terribly naff, and this just proves to me that Hugo Rifkind has never sat down with his family on a Saturday night to watch X Factor or Britain's Got Talent.

I suppose 'populism' is distrusted because its equated with mob rule? But if you think about it, populism is the very definition of democracy, especially in a FPTP situation.

And that's making me think of this:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-glorious-campness-of-reform/

I mean if anyone wants to compare them to X Factor or pro wrestling or Carry On movies (and Nigel does have a kind of Sid James air to him), it's worth reflecting that these are incredibly popular things.

I listen to Times Radio too, it is as you say.

The centre left media are somewhat aware people voting as they like could be a threat to their livelihoods. The best method to counteract that is to talk about populism.

People voting for what they want is the point of democracy, atm some fear they might.