Far right women

[PermanentTemporary]

Katie Lam and Pochin from Reform spouting stuff that makes me feel sick. Looking at all the glossy goons like Kristi Noem and Pam Bondi surrounding Trump. I am predicting that Erica Kirk will be the first woman President or perhaps more likely Vance’s Vice President. I’m not talking about women who would like to pay less tax, or Theresa May, but those who rise in extreme right wing circles.

I’m working my way extremely slowly through Andrea Dworkin’s ‘Right Wing Women’. Has anyone else read it? I don’t have any conclusions about this yet…

Idk what the motivation for those posts are but quite a few are extreme to prompt reaction from women.

The posts in general not the supposed message

I'd love to know that poster's true motivation

if they're just here for a chat like most of the rest of us, I'll eat my hat

Ah, you were doing pretty well for a while there. Most of us had clocked you but you couldn't help but push the envelope further 🫤

*hordes. But don't be daft.

'Our women and girls'. Really? On FWR?

This post, too, seems implausible.

It's also interesting that the OP talks about 'this place' and getting Hope not Hate to run a story on it but it's an interesting discussion no matter why it was started so I'm going to be grateful to them because it's always nice to see different views.

Do you think Germans should hate their country because of the holocaust? Japan due to their colonialism? Sweden because of their eugenics programme?

I don’t have pride or shame in relation to my nationality. I do look across the world and have views about politics and culture. I expect some might consider me racist when I hold negative views about aspects of cultures with a history of oppression. Where I regard a culture negatively, I can do so recognising the role oppression may have played, and recognise that my judgement is influenced by my own cultural lens. The fact that I still dislike aspects of a culture doesn’t mean I’m racist. Many would say I am.

If I weren’t British and listed aspects of British culture that I dislike, I doubt you would mind. If I listed aspects of a different culture, one that reflected minority groups in the UK, I expect you would accuse me of racism.

America has a hugely different culture and politics to the UK. I’ve had friends who have moved here from the US and were shocked by the difference that they really struggled to settle in. They assumed that as we spoke the ‘same’ language and a small group of people who started the US hundreds of years ago were from the UK we must be very similar. They then discovered even our language is not as similar as they thought.

The Democratic Party sits to the right of our Conservative Party - the American left is not left at all by our standards. And race history is very very different.

I think you mean the pp not the op.

I feel similarly about their posts tbf, if any posts should be looked at.

Thank you, I do appreciate that you are interested in different perspectives, I hope I have managed to convince you to lean on the side of reason, there can never be enough of us over here x 😇

😂

@Swiftasthewind
We’ve taken way more from the world than we have given

I don’t think that is true. People in the world today are immeasurably richer, healthier and safer than they were 200 or even 50 years ago. Especially for non-elites.

You cannot explain why without mentioning things Britain was fundamental to: the industrial revolution, modern medicine, modern democracy and institutions, global trade at scale.

Those things have made the world hundreds of times more prosperous, virtually everywhere. Are you saying that what Britain ‘took’ made the world hundreds of times worse (by whatever measure you are choosing)?

If you claim “they would have happened anyway from somewhere else” then a) not necessarily (they didn’t for thousands of years, after all), and b) you’d have to apply that same logic to Britain’s crimes too.

Can you define reason for me please? I've always thought it was so subjective that you might just as well say 'wibble' like in Blackadder.

absolutely this. It’s utterly pointless to refer to analogises of current American politics in discussions about the U.K.

Idk, but I saw on my local Facebook group some people proudly talking about how they’d put up a reform uk stand at the local market to generate support. Needless to say that the charming man in those photos campaigning for Reform was also claiming how he’d “slap that b of a mother that gave birth to” the people who were disagreeing with him. Couldn’t actually believe this kind of language was being allowed as free speech by a reform campaigner and no moderators stepped in. The fact that the party is very very happy to be associated with such outward misogyny (and racism!) is just bloody terrifying.

As Maya Angelou said - when people show you who they are, believe them.

When you look at British history, and the things we’ve done to other countries, if you don’t hate your country because of that then you must seriously lack empathy. We’ve taken way more from the world than we have given, and things like DEI are little steps in the right direction at addressing the balance.

This is such a biased view of British history and that of other countries but one that seems prevalent amongst DEI types. I do also wonder if it reflects their immigration status (as in family immigrated within a couple of generations) as it ignores even recent British history. The suffering of the people of Britain in both world wars is completely ignored - 6% of adult males died in the First World War, the suffering of those in city slums by industrialisation, the history of serfdom, of being colonised or being taken as slaves by countries from Scandinavia to Africa and Asia… It also ignores the colonisation and empires of other countries around the globe such as Ottoman Empire, the Mongol empire, the Roman Empire, the Mughal empire, or African empires that controlled the slavery trade which principally went east (including slaves captured from Europe). Or the tens of millions killed and the genocides under various Islamic caliphates.

It also suggests that DEI is used yo
punish British people for crimes of not their ancestors but their historic overlords. No wonder people hate it!

Yes roosting, I was trying to compose a post about using history in this binary way and failed several times.

we learn from history. No point using it as whipping boy and self flagellating.

it’s just like with safeguarding; we learn from analysis of what went wrong, make appropriate changes (including justice) and try to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

by keeping an eye on what is happening now and why.

Within this context, @PermanentTemporaryis absolutely right to ask the question asked in the OP. To avoid it is to sweep potential issues on all sides under the carpet.

freedom to discuss is what must happen next.

Thanks for proving my point so promptly.

You need to take off your anti British, anti colonial glasses and look at what really happened. I follow a guy on Instagram who has been absolutely fascinating about the African countries that benefited enormously from the knowledge and infrastructures spread from Europe around 200 years ago and they are generally nicer places to live. He points out the other countries that didn’t gain this knowledge and they are not nice places.

Take the slave trade for example, yes, we participated and that was very wrong. However, we were a small proportion of the whole problem with the Arab slave traders targeting black proper and different black counties targeting each other, heck, there was quite a brisk trade in white slaves in various areas across the centuries. As a country we recognised the problems and were working hard from the 1770s to stop it, changing laws, spending vast sums of money and sending our Navy to patrol the seas to intercept slave ships and rescue the slaves.

The fact you seem to have missed is that this all happened a long time ago. The world was a different place. People thought it was ok to stuff young boys up chimneys until far later than they decided that we had to abolish slavery.

You mention reparations - Lammys proposals were ludicrous. Who are they planning to pay? We already did our bit in 1833. The British government borrowed £20 million, about 40% of the government's annual budget and roughly 5% of the UK's GDP to buy freedom for the slaves.

We are no longer in the 1800s. We are different people. If you ‘hate’ your country (presuming you are British) for the past then that’s on you. Don’t expect the rest of us to punish our kids for the sins of our ancestors.

It’s interesting that reform are courting women with one type of extreme view while Zack Polanski is courting an entirely different cohort of women / non men / actual men who think men can be women. And both parties are seeing their membership rise.

Yes they are kind of the mirror of each other for disaffected voters.

The average life expectancy in Manchester in the mid 1800s was between 17 and 23. Life was not roses in the heart of the empire.

What I don't understand though, is that most people who hold this DEI view of history ALSO believe that we should accept unlimited migration from countries on the grounds that conditions there are so inhumane and intolerable as though that in itself isn't an argument for empire! If they're THAT bad and we are the safe haven then is there not a moral imperative to intervene in these countries?

Don’t expect the rest of us to punish our kids for the sins of our ancestors.

For the vast majority it wasn’t their ancestors. Their ancestors were paid a pittance as four year olds to do 12 hour shifts running under cotton mules and, if they survived that and the terrible living conditions, die of byssinosis.

Reason and fact are an anathema to some posters like Swift. There also seems to be a degree of delusion and self hatred.

And many of those countries are also countries with horrific history of colonisation others themselves.

Yes this too. If the pp wants to make amends they can. Perhaps do a swap system where people who feel guilty trade places.