Muslim charity run

[Thomasina79]

Has banned women and girls over the age of 12 from participating. Thoughts?

I think you're just more sensitive to Islam. I remember some years ago hering that most of the forced marriage prevention charities deal with Hindus and Sikhs more than Muslims. Yet people rarely consider anyone but Muslims when it comes to so called honour based violence and forced marriage.

She's just said - she's in favour of closing all religious courts.

Enough for your brothers, husbands and sons to stop hurting women and girls from their own communities.

No she mentioned Jewish courts after I did. Her thought when it comes to religious courts flies automatically to Muslims.

Can you provide a source for that please? I’m strongly against religion affecting government policy or the law, and will object to any overlap, but the reason Islam is the focus at the moment is because it seems to be the predominant religious for trying to influence law, policy and freedom of speech.

Thankfully the poor man ‘convicted’ of burning a Koran was successful in his appeal this week, although the man who attacked him with a knife still didn’t get prison time.

I've seen women athletes and other sports women compete in hijabs, also in kit which is more "modest".

I’m afraid I think this is a spectacularly naive position. Can you really not see why this is a dangerous precedent to set?

Roll forward and just imagine how women’s rights might be affected in the future if our exclusion from activities on religious grounds becomes acceptable.

Well, her point is, as you will agree, to ban all religious courts.

I’m also in favour of closing all religious courts but I think it’s hardly surprising that Sharia courts get more attention considering the difference in numbers in the UK between the Muslim population and the Jewish population. Both should end though.

I don’t understand the surprise or upset. It’s well known that some religions and cultures expect and require different roles, dress and rules for men and women over the age of puberty.

This almost always entails some of the following: restrictions on women from participating on the same basis as men in public life, events, management of religious and other community events and sometimes also restrictions on leaving the home and how one dresses. It’s not new.

That’s up to them. Not everyone is the same. Does it align with my values? No. But are they free to do as they wish? Yes.

My only concern would be if such views and controls were to be extended to other events and situations in uk public life or control of state institutions. Eg local authority controlled by religious group mandating male teachers only or things of that nature.

I don’t understand how anyone would justify this clearly :
discriminatory
misogynistic
event

it is telling that there is clearly just one voice on this thread saying this is OK, and digging in their heels, really going for the what about,y

a dollop of - yes, but the jews - as the cherry on the toxic cake, to confirm that there will be no meaningful intelligent dialogue here -

I'm not in any way defending this but I'm not sure that the legal/charity/EHRC positions are clear here are they?

For eg lots of football clubs have mixed sex tournaments up to a certain age (not sure but similar to 11/12?) And then switch to only boys/men and there's no automatic requirement for them to provide a female alternative?

My ds had girls in his football group until about year 4 and then they moved over to an all girls side but it was elsewhere because nowhere closer did all girls. I don't think the football group got into any trouble for not providing a suitable female group for them to go into? Is that something that could lead to a potential legal challenge? That grassroots football/rugby and cricket groups have to provide like for like for both sexes at all ages after segregation happens for safety?

I read that there are Muslim women challenging this, and angered by the exclusion.

Well we all know anyone can identify as any gender they want and enter any race. Maybe ManFriday crowd needs to turn up. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Not on precisely the same topic but Janice Turner's piece in the Times yesterday is worth reading.

The equality act defines the few situations where excluding people based on a protected characteristic is allowed.

It starts from the baseline that exclusion because of sex, race etc. is unlawful EXCEPT where it is a proportionate means to achieve some sort of necessary benefit to those who are not excluded.

eg excluding women from a men’s cancer support group to enable the men to talk more freely.

A fun run that excludes women because men say they shouldn’t be visible to men while running (or whatever crappy reason they have) does not sound legal in this country.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38833804.amp

This is the lady I saw saying it..I am trying to find a direct quote. I saw her say it on telly years ago when she was talking about the issue and the presenter was like "one thing to clear up, you're not Muslim are you, and this still happened to you." And then she spoke about the caste system and that Hindus and Sikhs live with similar issues and inequality as Muslims but nobody cares.

You know, I really hate that... "what about the Jews" it always happens and I wish it didn't.

Yeah it’s not surprising is it, I mean it’s not like mosques are bastions of womens equality. Islam isn’t particularly woman friendly full stop (not saying individual muslim women aren’t happy being muslim). Of course women struggle to speak up about it, censure from your religious community is painful.

What if you found out that women were instrumental in deciding the entry criteria?

Don’t be so silly. Nobody’s going to make anybody run. But everybody should have the opportunity to run if they wish to. It shouldn’t be that everyone can run except for females over 12. Anybody thinking this is acceptable is a misogynist.

It’s still not legal in this country.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/forced-marriage-unit-statistics-2023/forced-marriage-unit-statistics-2023

Forced marriage unit has the majority of offenders being basically pakistani.

If you have a problem with religious courts, it should be all religious courts, surely. And things like women being forbidden from driving. Not just followers of a certain religion.

Doesn’t matter at all. It’s still illegal no matter who cooked it up. And it matters to all of us that it isn’t allowed to stand. We must not allow a pushing of the boundaries anywhere. There’s no excuse. Religion or otherwise. And that goes for all religions.

Women must not be treated as less important than men.