Muslim charity run

[Thomasina79]

Has banned women and girls over the age of 12 from participating. Thoughts?

How do you know 'they' don't, if they don't know what rights they have through living in this country, if they don't know there is another way of doing things if they wanted to. If they only aware of what they are told by a male dominated religion, that treats them as property, they're never going to know they have choices.

Yet I bet you would have a problem with male teachers around your daughters modifying their attire to make things shorter or tighter.
If your daughters male teacher came into school wearing tight shorts,penis bulging, or things hanging out so you could see what he had for breakfast you would have a lot to say. But such is the hypocrisy of a lot of you on here.
This is why I don't get angry when teachers say things like this.

'Open to everyone: runners, walkers, and children (girls under 12 and boys of any age), plus family and friends as spectators or volunteers. Whether you’re taking part in the 5 km run or cheering from the sidelines, you’re welcome!'

But not women? How on earth is that 'everyone'?

Disgusting.

Ill go out of my way making sure I run infront of Muslim men in my shorts and cropped top.

It's appalling. Should not be allowed in this country. This is why people are unsettled by the rise of a certain demographic.

Muslims are 6.5% of the population. This has grown by 1.2 million since 2011 - a rapid rise but still a small minority that seems to have a growing influence in our society.

If the government and Islamic leaders (and Humza Yousaf) get their way, they will have more power.

For those who think muslims should be able to live untouched by Uk legislation, does that extrend to having more than one wife? Or to the verbally reprimand your wife, then withdraw from her bed and then hit her with a stick no wider than your thumb thing if you have a disagreement? Both would be illegal, would you expect the law to step in or would that be a Muslim matter too?

Frankly I don’t think misogyny and the oppression of women should be protected by religion, but I’m at risk of saying something that will offend people of I go much further.

You are entirely missing the point I and others have made which makes it clear the organisers don’t consider women and girls as “people”, which shows where the religion is coming from.

Wow
on what planet is it ok to permit / promote misogyny

and say case closed ??

no discussion about laws / equality / discrimination

and then stand behind : bigotry / racism

we need to shout louder to protect human rights / civil society

In the Daily Mail article the mosque say that they are relying on Section 195 and Schedule 23 paragraph 2 of the Equality Act.

Section 195 deals with sport and allows for single-sex competitions (eg men-only and women-only events) where the activity is "a gender-affected activity". In other words where being stronger, taller etc can make a difference.

This can include things like running, playing football, swimming etc. But it also covers other sports such as, most recently, pool.

There is ongoing debate about at what age young boys start to outperform young girls and so at what age does sport, such as running, become a "gender-affected activity".

It appears that the mosque would likely argue that running is not a gender-affected activity for children aged under 12. However, if you have any 11 year old children then you will have noticed that boys of that age can definitely run faster than girls - on average.

The Schedule 23 part is that they can restrict participation to muslim people only.

Yes. That didn’t go well for Afghani, Iranian or Iraqi women.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/east-london-charity-given-official-warning-over-loss-of-1-million

'The Commission has issued an Official Warning to East London Mosque Trust over an investment deal which resulted in the loss of £1 million. The regulator found trustees failed to have sufficient oversight of the charity’s activities and it has given the charity six months to take remedial action or possibly face further regulatory scrutiny.

Presumably this.

If this was a race for men, and their children could join in, that would be practical, and family orientated.

Just like when small children go into the public loos with their parents, or women bring their children with them to womens events.

Since when do 12 year olds be classed as adults and not children? Im taking that the 12 year old boys are there because they are classed as men?

@ThatSpryShakeryou may see no issue with a race that’s billed as open to everyone excluding females of 12 and above but the Equality and Human Rights Commission may well do. It it was a men’s race highlighting a men’s health issue that would be different, as the exclusion of women could be seen as a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, but this purports to be for everyone but excludes women in any role other than spectators. Sex equality is a British value and it trumps religious and cultural customs. No Muslim woman should be compelled to run in a race with men, but Muslim women are British citizens who deserve the same protection of the law - why should Muslim women have to ask you (or anyone) for support to uphold their legal rights?

Good law making involves addressing unwanted consequences. When it comes to single sex provision, I can understand making exceptions for children that prevents unwanted exclusion of parents.

I would be bloody delighted if the motivation to include girls under 12 in the race was because of the likely preponderance of teenage and adult male runners having caring responsibilities that could prohibit them from running if not. I doubt that’s the motivation though!

A Supreme Court judgement was necessary to confirm which rights women have in the UK. We have learned from the NHS Fife case that generally accepted practice is to copy whatever everybody else is doing, not to consult a lawyer. I don't know why it would be assumed that any group of people is aware of their rights, particularly if there may be barriers to consulting a lawyer who is properly qualified equality law specialist.

We do know, from experience, that it can be hard for women to defend their rights, for many reasons.

It’s almost as if … women don’t count.

Except of course as cheerleaders for men, boys and the not-yet-women. This year’s 11 year old girls will be excluded next year and pushed onto the sidelines with the rest of extras. Unbelievable.

to be fair, this is quite the generalisation. The muslim women I know are not at all in this position. I do accept that there will be women in this position though.

If you're comparing this race to children being allowed in opposite sex changing rooms then the race is equivalent to providing male changing rooms that can be used by girls under 12 but not providing female changing rooms

It's not oppression

Ew. So this group of men specifically want only females under the age of 12 there, with no females over 12 being able to watch over them like mothers? Sounds creepy to specifically seek out children like this.

As far as I had thought, changing rooms aren’t in any way comparable to Charity runs!

women being excluded from things men can have is not oppression? right you are

The difficult with this is that while women across the world are being murdered for not confirming to these same rules, do all Muslim women truly have freedom of choice?

Have they been conditioned into ‘liking’ these rules because there is no choice? Even Muslim women in this country have been murdered for not sticking to the rules. The implied threat of consequences will always be present.

Section 195 deals with sport and allows for single-sex competitions (eg men-only and women-only events) where the activity is "a gender-affected activity". In other words where being stronger, taller etc can make a difference.

From the website, this race only seems to have medals for finishers, and there is no information about timing competitors so it seems to be very much a fun run. Can a fun run be gender affected?

Interesting to compare to park run, who say that they don't need to segregate any of their results by sex, because they are just a fun run, even though they provide a service by timing participants.