Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inside the DHSC’s secret courtship of anti-trans lobby groups

131 replies

BeeSourianteAgain · 04/10/2025 15:59

It's all coming out in the wash.

https://tacc.org.uk/2025/10/03/inside-the-dhscs-secret-courtship-of-anti-trans-lobby-groups/

Trans rights in the UK are the worst in western Europe and behind progressive utopias such as Turkey and Romania*..and we're now seeing why. We would not allow the KKK to be 'key stakeholders' when it comes to the rights of black people, yet this government appears to think that it's appropriate to have unqualified anti-trans activists and trans-eliminationists involved when it comes to trans people and trans youth.

This is utterly shameful though not entirely surprising from a government that has pandered to the far right on many occasions.

rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/categories/legal-gender-recognition/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MurkyWeather2 · 04/10/2025 16:08

Glad to see my monthly subscription to Sex Matters being put to good use😍

unwashedanddazed · 04/10/2025 16:10

I do so miss the laugh reaction option. Sad times :(

NotMyRealAccount · 04/10/2025 16:11

Goodness, the adults were talking to one another. Who'd have expected that?

JellySaurus · 04/10/2025 16:12

I know. Isn’t it shocking that in the UK trans-identifying people have the right to evidence-based medicine! And that gender-confused children have the right to be safeguarded and protected from physical and emotional harms while they work out how they feel about themselves!

TeenToTwenties · 04/10/2025 16:13

What rights do trans people in the UK not have that others of their sex do have?

PronounssheRa · 04/10/2025 16:13

So you would agree that men, however they identify have no place butting in on discussions about women's rights, Bee?

CorvusPurpureus · 04/10/2025 16:16

That's great to hear. Really good news that the government are listening to women's & LGB groups, as well as safeguarding experts.

DarkForces · 04/10/2025 16:17

Those pesky women wanting to have a say about letting penises in their spaces. They should really know their place. It's not their place to question men. Zip it ladies.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/10/2025 16:18

anyone fancy translating the OPs words from their Looking Glass world, where women reasserting women’s rights (stolen with ‘no debate’ by males), and LGB people defending their rights are somehow cast as analagous to the KKK?

That’s really not a good faith argument.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/10/2025 16:18

TeenToTwenties · 04/10/2025 16:13

What rights do trans people in the UK not have that others of their sex do have?

None but it's Bee. He talks utter nonsense - he's another of the GC dept state double agents, converting more ppl with every posts

oh and just for the avoidance of doubt, the changes that removed women's rights took place behind closed doors with only LBGTQ+ groups consulted

MurkyWeather2 · 04/10/2025 16:22

EweSurname · 04/10/2025 16:13

Have you considered supporting Athena Forum too @MurkyWeather2 ? They look like they’ll be doing good things on a wider stage https://athena-forum.eu

Yes, on my to-do list for the weekend💚💜

Helleofabore · 04/10/2025 16:32

Gosh… considering who is part of Sex Matters, I think that the author of this trans advocacy piece is quite ridiculous with the claim that Sex Matters “misuse human rights law”.

That seems like a claim open for a legal action to me. Imagine that.

GirlsInGreen · 04/10/2025 16:34

#SadTimes 😁

SinnerBoy · 04/10/2025 16:36

PronounssheRa · 04/10/2025 16:13

So you would agree that men, however they identify have no place butting in on discussions about women's rights, Bee?

I doubt it! And he lost me at the first sentence of that ridiculous, third rate piece of propaganda. I did read the first section, however.

unwashedanddazed · 04/10/2025 16:37

Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press". Christine Burns on private talks with govt ministers by Press for Change.

Goose or gander?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Voices from the trans community: 'There will always be prejudice'

It's more than 50 years since the UK's first trans person was outed in the press. So how do members of the community think life has changed for them since?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Coatsoff42 · 04/10/2025 16:39

Imagine listening to two sides of an issue? Or hearing everybody’s concerns? What a nerve!

Helleofabore · 04/10/2025 16:42

Gosh Bee. This is really interesting!

Here is another complaint:

“May–June 2024 – undermining suicide data

In parallel, Sex Matters began pestering DHSC to discredit suicide statistics among trans youth. They challenged data quoted by Mermaids’ former CEO, complained that Tavistock had refused their FOI requests, and asked DHSC to verify the numbers.

They followed up with their own “factsheet” — Dispelling the Suicide Myth — a document designed to strip urgency from the risks faced by trans children. When no reply came, they chased again in June: “When can we expect a response?”

This was lobbying to erase the most devastating consequence of denying care.

Think about that: while trans teenagers are dying, anti-rights hate groups are pestering civil servants to strip out the evidence.”

Imagine that! And did Trans Advocacy show their working here to prove the fact sheet was misinformation? Not that I can see!

But here .. the numbers were checked and verified.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust-independent-report

How inconvenient to the author, and how surprising they failed to link this up.

Here it is here for those reading along :

Conclusions
1. The data do not support the claim that there has been a large rise in suicide by young patients attending the gender services at the Tavistock since the High Court ruling in 2020 or after any other recent date. The figures for the 6 years covered in this review are 12 suicides in total, 2 per year on average, of whom half were under 18. With small numbers, single-figure differences can be expected and causal explanations are unreliable.

The patients who died were in different points in the care system, including post-discharge, suggesting no consistent link to any one aspect of care. They had multiple social and clinical risk factors for suicide.

However, it is likely that there has been a rise over a longer period as young people at risk have increasingly presented with gender dysphoria and referrals to GIDS have risen.

There is a degree of uncertainty about the deaths recorded as “suicide not confirmed”. It is possible that more information on these cases would result in amended figures for individual years but the numbers remain too small to affect my conclusions.

2. The way that this issue has been discussed on social media has been insensitive, distressing and dangerous, and goes against guidance on safe reporting of suicide. One risk is that young people and their families will be terrified by predictions of suicide as inevitable without puberty blockers - some of the responses on social media show this.

Another is identification, already-distressed adolescents hearing the message that “people like you, facing similar problems, are killing themselves”, leading to imitative suicide or self-harm, to which young people are particularly susceptible.
Then there is the insensitivity of the “dead child” rhetoric. Suicide should not be a slogan or a means to winning an argument. To the families of 200 teenagers a year in England, it is devastating and all too real.

3. The claims that have been placed in the public domain do not meet basic standards for statistical evidence. To be reliable, evidence should be objective, unbiased and open to independent scrutiny. It should admit uncertainty.

Campaign groups are often selective about evidence - there is nothing wrong with this until it becomes misleading and potentially harmful. The evidence put into the public domain for an “explosion” of suicides is not unbiased nor has it been independently verified. There seems to be no suicide expertise behind the claims.

4. Suicide by any young person is a profound tragedy: it should be seen as an indictment of our society. Young people with gender dysphoria may well have experienced ostracism and abuse, and their distress is likely to be heightened if services are perceived as rejecting. It is unfortunate that puberty-blocking drugs have come to be seen as the touchstone issue, the difference between acceptance and non-acceptance. We need to move away from this perception among patients, staff and the public.

This is a group of young people who need compassion and security, skilled clinical assessment, early treatment for mental illnesses such as depression, support within their families and schools and online, and an expectation of recovery and a fulfilling future. It is vital that these are the assurances the NHS and its partner agencies are able to convey.

5. In the end this is about a group of young people at risk of suicide and our collective responsibility to their safety. This means specialist health services with the capacity to respond to rising demand and appropriate skills in general services. It means a measured public discourse, making sure we do not stoke up prejudice or cause unnecessary alarm to the young people and their families.

We need to ensure also that we have high quality data in which everyone has confidence. The number of deaths should be monitored, not only in gender services but other mainstream databases, as is now happening in NCMD and in my own unit, the National Confidential Inquiry. Future prevention will depend on it.

Review of suicides and gender dysphoria at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust: independent report

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust-independent-report

SidewaysOtter · 04/10/2025 16:43

Oh give it a rest mate.

Mind you, thanks for the reminder of the good work Sex Matters do and that's why I donate to them. I urge everyone to do so!

eatfigs · 04/10/2025 16:44

What a satisfying read, great to hear about these successes in navigating governmental bureaucracy, and the positive change this must be making. Thanks for posting, much appreciated.

EmpressaurusKitty · 04/10/2025 16:45

Excellent news, thanks Bee.

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 04/10/2025 16:49

Mate.

Women not consenting to take their clothes off to gratify your ego or chosen inner self is not 'right wing' in the same way as men not wanting to stick their hands in a mincer is not 'right wing'.

Use the gender neutral loos, you'll be fine.

MarieDeGournay · 04/10/2025 16:50

Thank you BeeSourianteAgain, it's lovely to get some positive news!Smile

ThirdDesk · 04/10/2025 16:50

Informative as always, Bee.

Just not in the way you thought you'd be.

SupremeArbiter · 04/10/2025 16:50

Oh my goodness.

Trans people have had their trans rights removed? When did this happen? Can you tell me and can you tell me what trans rights exactly they’ve had removed?

Note. I don’t mean the sex based rights they were wrongly told they could claim when in fact they had no legal right to them in the first place.

Thanks so much!!!