Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

From TT

AL - correc
ST - Jan 25?
AL - yes
ST did the sign change prior to Jan 25?
J - badging?
ST - no the badging was with previos, just general use
AL - we planned for it to be changed earlier but not changed till Jan, was a misunderstanding

ST - further changes made in last few weeks to signage. Why changes made again in sept 25?
AL - understand theres a cleaners cupboard, as you go in access is needed to cleaners cupboard. Changed locks so cupboard could be in use
ST - A4 sign directing people to lock door

<sigh>

<gets stash>

Well, that was a waste of a good wrapper!

Andy clearly couldn't give a toss!

From TT

ST - outer door, changing 2 cubicles to 1 person use?
AL - yes that's right
ST - a lock placed on inner door
AL - yes
J - when
ST - Sept 25
ST - directs to doc, look to bottom, footer R edinburgh facility spreadsheet.
AL - reads
ST - in e-bundle it has that, have you seen before

Also you can add to them over time and they become bigger and bigger and no longer able to fit under the sofa, but unfortunately you will have to eat considerably more to achieve this nirvana.

From TT

AL - yes in preparation
ST - prep'd by you?
AL - no
ST - numbers in column, welfare facilities, toilets and showers, Edin P1 and Edin P2
AL - yes phase 1 and 2
ST - who wrote this?
AL - H&S general or facilities people maybe
ST - when?
AL - 18 mo ago maybe

Challenge accepted

From TT

ST - P2 column, gender neutral toilets we see 9
AL - yes
ST - so there are 16 GN and accessible toilets in total
AL - yes
ST - total for phase 2?
AL - yes
ST - 9 is the number of GN toilets now?
AL - yes
ST - further changes planned?
AL - in course of qu's in grievance,

Andy's sighing quite a bit now we on to the ins and outs of the toilets. He'd rather talk corporate bollocks.

We forgot to change the sign and then when we did we realised that the cleaners couldn't get to their stuff and so we changed the sign again and now we depend on people to lock the door behind them...
Leonardo is a global security company that realises multi-domain technological capabilities in Aerospace, Defence, and Security.
but they can't get the sign on a door right..

This would be so much more bearable watching if we could see the fucking floor plan!!!!

From TT

AL - i reached out to Facilities to ask if there were more changes across L estate, there is a plan and I was interested in the Edinburgh plans. Took an interest in the plans, 3 phase approach, 1st to see what we had, phase 2...
J - sorry, phase 1?
AL - talking about whole UK

Top level, top men.

@Boiledbeetle Why do you have a collection of wrappers? For the cat, or artwork, or maybe decoupage?

Am I right that an accessible toilet is a disabled/wheelchair toilet? Grab rails around the toilet, big wide door with an easy to use lock, lowered hand basin with easy to use taps, things like that.

No, Boily, it would not.😒

From TT

AL - its in 3 phases, looking at structural requirements
ST - might need permission?
AL - maybe
ST - would locks need that?
AL - it's an overall look at what's there, could do easy things first as a priority, where need to convert urinals etc might need building warrants

Damn it. I disconnected and now I can’t get back in.

I’m WFTCHTJ.

Some amongst all the waffle did he say they are intending to have single occupancy fully enclosed toilets with sinks?

For an engineer he seems surprisingly uninterested in the literal nuts and bolts of the issue. He waffles on about phases, requirements, investment, consolidation, facilities, programmes. He's very dismissive of actual 'plumbing, that sort of thing'.

I'm sure I had a plan for them originally, but god knows what!

Convert urinals? To what? Indoor flower beds? Hydroponic vegetable beds? Wouldn’t it be remove urinals?

Sounds like they don't have many/any wheelchair users and they realised they had to have accessible facilities so gave it a token gesture and called it the accessible loo

Is he on about costings of refurb?

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

Paint them pink so TW feel validated using them?

Yes, but he's also saying all the toilets are accessible to everyone - they're not "secret".

He's taking secret literally. They're not secret - they're just not used as much as the ones near the desks, because you have to go through the canteen. I imagine there aren't many desks near them. Most people will go to their nearest loo.