Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

State you are a member of the public and give your full name and the email address you will use to access the tribunal.

Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

I third the opinion that Caramel Wafers are the supreme Tunnocks offering…

😮

This has completely changed how I see you!

I thought the teacake was the epitome.

@Easytoconfuse wafers are certainly a good choice as an observer snack, because they are harder to consume rapidly without noticing, but the court reminds you to take care not to choke violently if NC performs an unexpected mic-drop while you are mid caramel bar

I think we all know an Andy. Not very bright, worked his way up the corporate ladder knowing which side his bread is buttered, gained management roles due to long service rather than aptitude and has a fat pension fast approaching on the horizon. He's a family man but doesn't like talking about what he probably terms 'women's problems' what with all their complicated plumbing and messy bleeding.

I hope I'm proved wrong and he turns out to be a thoughtful, sensitive chap who totally gets that half the population are not just weaker men with bumps under their shirts. But the signs so far aren't good.

Bangs gavel

hate teacakes, love wafers

Judge has mentioned typing noises!

Sorry.

I'd better stop pratting i hadn't noticed it had restarted.

Trying to work out the Australian equivalent of Tunnocks. I don’t think there is any. Aldi was selling them a few months ago as part of a UK Special Buys. Irn Bru as well.

From TT

Resuming.
ST - much evidence about plans and agreed facilities. Look to 1st floor plan 2, from before Oct 24. Key shows diff facilities, pink blue and green. MK's desk marked from that time. Looking to L of desk, agreed green area is communal F facility, blue is male,

I roll them into a ball for a cat toy.

From TT

ST - pink is accessible
AL - yes
ST - second image with MK's new desk, with colours marked. Before Oct 24, what was L policy for use of accessible?
AL - plan was employees use facilities according to gender ID
ST - general policy on toilet use
AL - didn't have a written policy

Sssh I don't want my cat to hear you. Otherwise I'll spend the rest of my life finding rolled up wrappers under the sofa

This is what I don't understand either. However, I think you and I are both making the mistake of assuming that the people running these organisations are possessed of at least a bare minimum of intellectual capability as well as a passing familiarity with the law. We're clearly wrong on both counts.

Andy just said GI policy for toilets wasn't written, just what happened in practice. No wonder MK asked in vain for a copy of it.

If you want to deprive your cats of the best toy ever (better than all of the expensive ones that are ignored), then that is your business!

Andy doesn't get the 'secret' toilet. He said they're all 'accessible'. Andy is really not on top of the nuances or the terminology.

From TT

AL - it was practice
ST - any separate policy for accessible?
AL - no, no restriction.
ST - green area ladies, blue being male represent position prior to Oct 24, is the ladies there known to employees generally?
AL - yes I'd say so
ST - is there a cafe area marked

AL - yes
ST - would the toilet be used by those in the cafe area?
AL - yes
ST - any comment on it being secret?
AL - to the best of myk nowledge these are all accessible and it's not secret
ST - about same toilet, that was changed from F to single unisex

The case may be about MAKE UK as well as Leonardo. It may be driven by MAKE UK if they really do believe their advice was right or a way of Leonardo testing the advice received.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_UK

https://www.makeuk.org/system/files/documents/Make%20UK%20HRL%20-%20Transgender%2010%20Ways%20to%20Support%20Oct%202023.pdf

10 Allow Trans employees to use facilities which are appropriate to their gender identity.

I've just had a Tunnocks Teacake of unknown vintage. I generally prefer them to the Wafer, but damn, they don't age well.

How is a toilet in the stairwell accessible for wheelchair users?

Have you ever watched a three year old operating on the principle that it's only wrong if they get caught doing it? Or maybe it was just my 2 who had this theory? My suspicion is that some people don't grow out of this stage. I wouldn't dream of saying who fits into my superannuated toddler 'but I want it! screams and kicks! stage.' That would be very naughty of me.

Means accessible in everyday English terms I think - not hidden..

And they got it from Stonewall.

Who have a lot to answer for.