Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

I suppose

The bleating of every child whose mum has just pointed out what they've done wrong.

Yup, I had that happen, until the day I was working on some noisy equipment. He came up behind me and put his hand on my breast. I'd been concentrating, so I jumped. My office chair on castors shot backwards. I'm the environmentally sized sort of woman (some say small). He was at just the right height for my control nut to hit his nuts. I heard a thud, looked round and he was on the floor and howling so I had to explain what happened. No one ever got groped again, and by the look of things it really hurt! That was 35 years ago so why hasn't anything changed?

I think Andy would like the questions to stop now

Thank you x

From TT

NC: Now that you think about it. The proportion of your female workforce that do have that expeience of sexual trauma. Your policy is excpetionally cruel to those women?
AL: Yes it could be
NC: thank you

NC: Your stated aim is to have inclusive workplace where all are welcome. Do you still think that your workplace toilet policy is part of achieving that?
AL: We have staff who identify as female. We felt it wd not inclusive to deny access.

It's hard to hear but I thinks He's trying to say only Maria had a problem

🫡

From TT

NC: You said, !at the time" we thought it was appropriate and lawful - you don't still think so?
AL: Well there has been the judgment. So we are considering about taking action. It is our aim to be lawful

NC: The effect of your current practice is to indulge the wishes of a small number of your male employees at the expense of all your female staff.
AL: No we consider all employees, only one person raised this policy with us, we respected her concerns, found a solution.

How could anyone complain when it took Maria over a year to even find out what the toilet policy was?

Lol. Will there be nuts 😂?

Inclusivity never seems to swing women’s way, I’ve noticed.

Funny that…

Here we go again. Andy thinks if he says words like respect, investment and inclusive often enough it'll all be ok.

Yet again AL has gone through a very challenging set of qq from NC, but he just returns to TWAW or identify AW, and that was the priority.

He's just not getting it, is he? Or refusing to admit it.

AL: Well there has been the judgment. So we are considering about taking action. It is our aim to be lawful

Andy Andy Andy! You were supposed to implement it immediately.

Make it stop MAKE IT STOP

Damn, the sound is impossibly bad, even after emailing about the specific problem microphones yesterday.

I am listening just to appreciate NC, and then following TT on delay for the rest

I haven't read this thread as I was late coming back, so I've only seen @MarieDeGournay 's post in the quote.

That is genius. 💙

NC now Talking about VP parking spaces....

That’s a great analogy.

From TT

AL: There's a long term strategy to provide more facilities, we are looking for a way to have much more single-occupancy.

NC: Can you explain to tribunal, why you can't say to a male employee "you can identify as a woman, you can wear what you like, but you can't use the ladies"?
AL: [Afraid I missed this]

NC: Suppose you still had say a VP dining room. And someone tried to come in. It would be fine to say "sorry you can't come in, this is VPs only". Asking hypothetically.
AL We don't really do that anymore
NC: Parking spaces then?
AL Yes we have those

NC: The effect of your current practice is to indulge the wishes of a small number of your male employees at the expense of all your female staff.
AL: No we consider all employees, only one person raised this policy with us, we respected her concerns, found a solution

So it's a MK problem, not an equality and lawfulness and women are people too problem??

Well quite. Male violence is a problem that happens everywhere except within 50 feet of me.

NC: It's not disrespectful to enforce reality-based rules.
AL: No

mic drop moment for NC

You stepped in at a time of need. Big pat on the back from me.
✊

This is great. It's not disrespectful to say MK can't use a VPN parking space just because she really wants to. Is it?
Andy reluctantly let out a little boy 'No'.