Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

And the ‘young blood’ is still going to be majority male, and there are some really troubling beliefs within ‘Gen Z’ around gender stereotypes according to various research studies.

Thanks, @MarieDeGournay, that’s really appreciated.

Apropos of nothing (except being surprised at Leonardo not knowing how many women they employed) did everyone know the statutory gender pay gap was based on self-ID gender of employees? This sounds wrong to me.

Try this one:

https://www.hill.st/products/hill-st-maldon-salted-caramel

It's gorgeous!

I knew the pay gap was gender ID because the BBC talk about how important it is and how hard they are trying and they employ a lot of trans identifying males they count as women.

So they’re statistically innumerate, while building high tech equipment and infrastructure?

British industry has usually been let down by its management. Old school tie plus failed engineers and perks for helpful politicians.

If it was good enough for Louis XIV ...

I do hope that NC can work in statistics about assault in mixed sex spaces, or the increased likelihood of hidden cameras at some point - “Were you aware that…”

I'm not sure she's allowed to. I think she has to show what's in the claim is correct. I'm sure she can make Leonardo's sole witness squirm though and will. I wonder how he 'volunteered' for the job and why he's so woefully unprepared.

He’s Mr Big Fish in a reasonably large pond, in the office.
Everyone knows Andy.
Everyone likes Andy.
He’s been here donkeys years.
He knows his stuff.
He knows the company inside out.
He’ll be absolutely fine giving evidence.

And after the ridiculous X he received from ST, he was completely unprepared for NC to come out swinging straight away.

I'm v curious about this, sorry if I missed it in the previous thread, what was the rainbow revolution and is this related to Maria's issues?

I've read enough of the pages on this thread to realise that Sam Bone is the daughter of ex CEO Norman Bone and was the one pushing the T stuff, correct? When I clicked on one of the links someone provided about Leonardo's there was a link to her but it went nowhere. It isn't working. Have they being doing an internet clean up? I'm wondering what's going to come out of this. Nepotism never goes well but nepotism with a big slice of activism is really dangerous. It just means no one thinks about safeguarding at all in a desire to keep the big boss happy.

waves to @INeedAPensieve I know where you mean. I am a CA (you'll know what that means) and the head of EDI needs to fkn go. I have had bad experiencces with him and he always creeped me out too. Your underground resistance needs to do a MK and SP on him and the organisation. I'm no longer there but I'd give anything to see a thread on here about them.

Do they have a BAME network yet? A disability network? I was told there was 'no interest' for them yet they have their LGBT network still going.

DH is doing his annual employer culture survey (WFH today). He's just asked me to guess (which I did accurately), the list of gender identities they've to select. He has just shouted through: "what the fuck is agender?"

Hi back! But no, nothing yet @sassanach . Although they are currently promoting black history month on the intranet, but I've not seen anything about bame network groups. There may be ones, but I don't want to go snooping about as it shows on what pages you've been searching.

New progress pride flag lanyards with the trans triangle have been getting handed out by marketing this summer. I just think we should have neutral lanyards. Being that we are a public service. Was it you that told me where the head of our EDI used to work, on a different thread? Does not surprise me, they are the creepiest organisation pushing this stuff into Scottish schools. Lots of threads on them!!!! I hate it all. Safeguarding failures and a threat to women and children. Thankfully my lesbian friends also hate it, and pleased to see one of my gay colleagues isn't wearing the lanyard and doesn't have pronouns despite (I'm assuming) internal pressure as the rest of his team do. Haven't plucked up the courage to ask him yet his thoughts, because you just never know! Some people I think haven't really given it a lot of thought.

Thanks for this thread. I’ve just caught up on TT and haven’t had time to read all the posts here but the ones I have read have been very useful. I’m enraged (again) at the thoughtlessness of these men. A pp posted about engineering up until the 1990s with topless calendars and lads culture. It does seem that they think they nailed inclusivity simply by ditching the calendars and only allowing the wims to be groped at the Xmas party…. Grrrr. All the corporate speak is making me a bit ill - fancy going into schools and encouraging girls into engineering on false pretences. They pay lip service to female inclusivity. Shameful

Although I have it on good authority that it’s the same problem at Rolls Royce…

I found the article with the CEO quite nauseating. "Boys toys" etc. He clearly completely loves himself. Ugh. I'd have hated to have raised my grievances in front of these men.

Good morning and welcome aboard the Tribunal Express. I'm Marie, and I'll be your Myrtle for this part of the trip.
The emergency exit is there.
The shrine to ✨NC✨is there.
Drinks and light refreshments are available throughout the tribunal, they are located there in your kitchen and there in your fridge.
We hope you enjoy your trib with us today!

The in flight entertainment should be good this morning.

TT
We expect the hearing to begin at 10.00 am. This is the final day of the present hearing, but it is probable that a future day will be decided today for the barristers to make their oral submissions to the court.

This morning will begin with continuing cross-examination of the witness Andrew R Letton (Vice President People Shared Services, UK at Leonardo Ltd) by the claimant's barrister Naomi Cunningham

Tribunal Tweets (@tribunaltweets) | nitter.poast.org

That link brings you straight through to where I'll be copying from.

I am rather confused by how its so short with only one witness on each side tho

Still no cSue as to what the defence is apart from well we were trying to include everyone

This is how tribunals are supposed to be. Peggie is an outlier.

I'm in the waiting room, but I'm not hearing WFTCHTJ.

My volume is full on both the hearing and my computer. Please would someone else in the waiting room please tell me if they can hear it? By PM if you prefer.