Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

I’m beginning to wonder if CEO Wee Clive is particularly aware that all this is even going on. I suppose he must be, now that it’s in the Times, Telegraph etc.

I can't remember which platform it was on but I am sure I learned some of the detail of the Watson threats on the Friday of the NHSFife Inappropriate Press Release. And it came out because people were incredulous because JR seemed to be blaming the Judge/tribunal for the threats on NHSFife staff that JR claimed came about because the tribunal was held publicly and without anonymity for witnesses. So people with inside knowledge were apoplectic that the reason the tribunal had been moved to Dundee was because of threats including 'citizens arrests' if NC and the J were to misgender Upton?

In the Times:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/08641790-85eb-49f3-bda2-916f4899df4d?shareToken=783eee5c631359094a3a698afb87d2f8

Clive Higgins current CEO attended the Virtual Pride event in 2020 (year of the deleted staff news report about Leonardo's Rainbow Revolution), organised by Sam Bone while Norman Bone was then the CEO. Clive knew everything, which is probably why Andy-who-knows-nothing was sent to face Naomi

More on Clive "Boys Toys" Higgins here: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-13849977/Leonardo-boss-Clive-Higgins-investing-defence-important-ever.html

But isn't it his job to be aware of things that happen in employment tribunals in Scotland?

It’s like these Top Men regard the tribunals as little bits of local housekeeping.

They’ll learn.

Don't be daft.

It's not his job to do his job.

MK looks a bit like Mary Beard - another one of my fan girl crushes...

In the same way it wasn't Isla Bumba's to produce a DEI policy that wasn't cobbled together from bits she found down the back of the sofa /Google.

To be honest I would have expected the Leonardo legal team to advise their witness to have a look at NCs brutal XX in the Peggie case given it was only down the road....

Come on, Andy is a kind person who gets all his news from the Guardian. He knows he's on The Right Side Of History.

They might have tried. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make the pope shit in his hands and clap.

Thanks, wims, trying to catch up as today has been back to back meetings for me. Appreciate all your commentary!

That's one very scruffy front door they've got there at the Tribunal: can't they afford any paint? What with Dundee having squeaky doors and now this one in Edinburgh ... not impressed.

I don't believe there is any naivety on the part of Leonardo's exec. Many of them have been in the company since an apprenticeship 40+ years ago, and they have been fully onboard with the idea that for Leonardo to maintain its market position, it must embrace DEI sufficiently to attract young blood. And trans allyship is really just a colourful new form of misogyny for anyone who wants it to be. They all know; they knew all along what they were doing. They just weren't involved with the staff networks at more than a superficial level so they haven't understood the more recently emerging threats to GI ideology that even trans redditors understand very well now, despite the foot stamping.

Phew just catching up on all this, thanks to @ickky and others for pulling this together.

I do not feel sorry for Andy. I hope Naomi really hammers the questions tomorrow and gets him to realise the problem.

In my world that's the only kind.😊

Many thanks to all here for the updates, that's me caught up. I was in the office today and between the background office hubbub and the crap sound quality I had to log off, I couldn't make out a thing. I'm glad I'll get to watch at least some NC tomorrow.

These tribunals have made me think about my own workplace, which, despite being public sector, does not seem to be captured. Or at least my department don't seem to be. We've heard a lot about written policies and risk/impact assessments (or the lack of them!) in these; in the unlikely event of any change happening in my workplace are these things that one should ask to see at the outset?

Oh, and in my office it's the gents who have the secret toilets off stairwells. I have no idea why.

Are you sure they are not just pissing in the stairwells?
(Only semi joking!)

It only takes one person with power pushing this stuff to screw up women’s safe spaces and alter the language around sex as a protected characteristic. Especially if people pushing back are called bigots, transphobic threatened with being reported for a hate crime or put on a naughty step.
My husband said Leonardo’s encouraged a very arse licky culture. Diversity of opinion was not encouraged

Ah you're lucky. My work (also public sector, a Scottish one - which are the worst ones for GI) is rife with it all. It's v depressing.

Today I went on the internal intranet and learned that apparently the 15th October is international pronouns day. Who knew?!!! They come out with this type of pish weekly since the head of our EDI team has made it his mission to drive GI into the psyches of all employees. I'm resisting. There is (happily) a small underground resistance. Quiet words in the kitchen with a few others have kept me sane. All we do is have quiet, incredulous words and get on with doing our jobs. Sadly lots of colleagues have fallen for it hook, line and sinker and it's been a slow creep over the past five years since he joined.

I'm so so tempted to post underneath the internal pronouns article a link to the "pronouns are like rophynol" blog I read ages ago but I'd 100% light a bonfire under my own job safety.

Education in Scotland is the main worry though. My teacher friends are worn down by it all. And all the wee apprentices coming through are all true true believers thanks to the Scottish govt pushing it into the heads of impressionable youngsters for the past 10 years via school guidance. It's going to take a long time and a lot more of these types of cases before it's finally a return to sanity.

That might explain the overwhelming bleach smell when you first walk in! I honestly didn't even notice there were toilets there until I was leaving with a male colleague who, half way down the stairs, said he was nipping to the loo. I had always assumed it was a service cupboard or a store for cleaning supplies! I've since checked in the passing and they are labelled as male toilets. I even went down the opposite stairwell to see if women had secret stair toilets on the other side, but alas not.

Re the TT transcriptions tomorrow:
Our wonderful Myrtle has an appt tomorrow so I'll be doing them instead.

I haven't read the replies yet to my q about the start time tomorrow, but I'll be ready to go at 9.45, just in case it starts on time at 10!

I'm also in Scotland, which is partially why I'm so surprised! As I say, it might be my department? Although I don't think I've seen much, if any, gender woo on the email Comms rounds.

I previously worked in the civil service, which was entirely captured, and I often wanted to post on the intranet but held off for the same reasons.