Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

I wish NC would ask them if they realise that their policies are unlawful.

I'm not surprised, having to listen to her words in that email. L are total shits with that they put her through

Let's make sure Maria has privacy, fuck the rest of the women.

Even though the staff consultation they love so much told them women did not like men in their loos.

But they didn't need additional facilities for Maria. They just needed to keep the sodding men out of the womens.

Just posting to say, with a cup of tea, caramels are the superior Tunnocks.

She only asks useful questions, though, and would that be useful? Ignorance of the law is no defence.

Is AL the one who said that? I can't remember from yesterday if the male boss in question was identified by name.

From TT

NC - it clear it's real not hypothetical, 3 men using female toilets at same time, difficulty to raise in case accuse of bigotry...
AL - trans females using facilities at the same time, sound issues raised
NC - are you suggesting the TiMs were given permission

No, I'm afraid that on this we disagree. Tunnocks teacakes are vastly superior

What's that saying about the confidence of a mediocre man?

He's sitting in a tribunal case. He hasn't read the bundle. He hasn't prepared at all. He's never researched Naomi Cunningham. The whole thing is "no issue" because it doesn't affect him, a man. And even though he's the only one put forward from his entire company to defend the case - he still doesn't really know what it's all about and is just faffing about because he thought he could just wing it on the day.

It makes me so mad that all these men came from women, they have women in their lives, presumably spouses, partners, children, sisters, aunts, neices and yet none of these men in power want to make workplaces and the world a safe and dignified place for women.

How do they sleep at night?

Yes. It struck me that, of the list of orgs/people they consulted with after the SC ruling, no lawyers featured. It's like Leonardo didn't want to hear the obvious truth.

He's just constantly throat clearing at this point.

AL - it is with MK and clear we try to address her issues of privacy and dignity. Had discussion around additional facilities for additional privacy. ??? sorry sound bad

I thought for a few seconds that 'sorry sounds bad' was AL having a sudden flash of self awareness!

I'm not sure, I think MK just said it was a senior person who said it to her but it was in Scotland so the hate crimes legislation was in all the news papers at that time. An easy way to remind MK to shut up

I'm sure she'll get to it

ST doing a Jane

I don't think so. From memory that was someone who is no longer with the company.

From TT

NC - and MK just hadn't encountered them?
AL - we had't come across any incidents to change the practice
NC - it was inevitable women would find them there
AL - I'm sure there were incidents
NC - inevitable because of practice
NC - whole case is abotu L letting men use F toilet

AL - yes
NC - do you agree teh law relates to sex?
AL - repeat
NC - the rule is the people allowed to use F toilets are people who are F and men who ID, and vice versa those are L's rules, fair
AL - OK
NC - is it fair, how the rule is framed must mean
ST - clear to me asking legal

She can't ask a witness of fact to agree or disagree with a point of law. That's a submission she has to make directly to the tribunal.

I think it was the VP of Operations

All having a conflab now

Witness dismissed for the day. Have a restful night Andy!

AL done for the day

Witness excused for the day. And he literally ran out.