Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

From TT

NC - when M and F stopped meaning sex and became identity, an indefinable point when that came about
AL - ?
NC - the practice of allowing self ID to use choice of toilet is something that L is doing
AL - yes
NC -sorry if sounds stupid, it's my destiny at this point.

I’m actually feeling a little bit sorry for AL. He is so out if his depth. He has not spent a single second considering any of the issues he is now being questioned about. His parroting of pithy phrases about Ls trans community and respect for all is just a script that he has accepted rather than a set of ideas that he actually agrees with.

Probably the first time in about 15 years he's ever had to justify the bullshit

Well, he's a Man, therefore it doesn't affect him, so who cares.

Well gender and sex, they're the same and and then we've got to be nice to the men in dresses and we're being kind and I don't see what the problem is really. Doesn't bother me.

Why can't the ladies just be kind?

I don't at all, because he made MK sit and talk about menstruation and menopause and lots of other things that she would rather keep private. All to get glory rainbow points

I thought he might need them if he runs out of loo roll. Or just runs out and tries desperately to find a clean loo.

@SternJoyousBeev2 They are all the same, so pious in their inclusivity.

From TT

NC - it is something L did, it is L's conduct
AL - yes if that's the language
NC - pg 263 - email chain IP's inquriy of 8th july of MK to further explain her grievance and her reply. Have you read it before?
AL - probably some time ago
NC - remind yourself of it.

He is a very slow reader. Hurry up Andy, the answer is not there. There is no salvation, and no-one is coming to rescue you

He's a very slow reader

I don't feel sorry for him at all. If he cared about women he'd have made it his business to find out.

I don't usually join in the girlish crush on NC thing - I'm a lesbian, and it would be literal in my case.
But I think that line from her has tipped me over the edge: I❤NC

Just think of his pay packet. His pension. His laziness and lack of thought, consideration and effort. And the harm he has caused numerous women, let alone MK, and you might find you feel a little better.

And the tedious X he had from ST covered absolutely nothing relevant, so, he was completely unprepared for NC to ask some proper questions.

Pious is exactly the right word. You could totally see it in the Fife witnesses. Very much holier than thou.

Uh oh, NC has asked him to remind himself of an email chain in the bundle...

Poor Maria…she’s weeping.

Like Isla Bumba, he's been paid (quite a lot, I imagine) to do a job he's not properly qualified for, and hasn't made the effort to read around the subject and get qualified.

Having watched MK yesterday I'm not sympathetic to his position in the slightest. He's lucky that this isn't being recorded and won't be shown on TV.

Edit: in my opinion.

Has he been living on the moon that he has so little idea of how NC operates?

From TT

reading
NC - do you doubt sincerity?
AL - no I believe it's sincere
NC - says I can't believe I have to explain the obvious consequences of being female, eratic dramatic consequences of perimenopause in facilities with M. other F colleagues agree, now confirmed it is policy

oh no. Not the email chains 😶‍🌫️

Poor MK, it must be so hard to listen to this, and to know you followed procedure and they didn't care

From TT

NC - do you agree this policy is unpopoular
AL - it is with MK and clear we try to address her issues of privacy and dignity. Had discussion around additional facilities for additional privacy. ??? sorry sound bad
NC - bottom of 261 - read last 5 lines, first 3 next - MK makes

As a Scot I found the hate crime comment yesterday especially bad, because actually it is reality that you can be charged for making a comment that someone else dislikes