Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

I bet MK is loving every minute!

AL - never been asked about it, never aware of a policy, not aware of any correspondence about it. understanding through investigations it's just accepted

Observers please confirm - is he rolling on the floor, waving his arms and legs with his hands in tight little fists and crying as he's saying this? And is his next line 'I HATE YOU YOU ARE A BIG MEANIE!'😂

From TT

NC - and walked into the toilet
J - hypothetical qu
NC - yes will be some. In 1990, man with a ponytail walked into F loo everyone would have been OK with that
AL - can't answer that
NC - when did you realise it was an issue at L
AL - is it an issue?
NC - when were you aware

And originally from Ronsard

Prufrock, like most of Eliot, is full of quotes and allusions

(Just typing this while Andrew hums and hahs and squirms)

Probably a cardiac cough because I know if I ever had to face off against NC my heart would just pack in.

AL - is it an issue?

Do you think you'd be at a bloody employment tribunal if it wasn't!

it's just accepted

And isn’t that always the problem?

AL "is it an issue?" When asked by NC about the hypothetical 1990 "man in a frock"

What fucking arrogance!

Even the way NC says ‘years’ is a treat!

Here's a comparison of three pieces of poetry, the Yates, the Ronsard and the Beatles on the same theme:

https://poemsdisentangled.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/w-b-yeats-pierre-de-ronsard-the-beatles-2/

Andy is sat with dropped shoulders and one hand propping up his chin as he reads the bundle for the very first time.

as Naomi speaks he shifts, wrings his hands and shuffles paper.

I have wedged my best wired speaker near my ear to catch any intellible words but he appears not to be making many.

Yesterday I was able to knit over 10 rows of 300 stitches (scarf, multicoloured, one row per colour, dead easy). Today I haven't even knitted a single row. Not quite half.

When I am enjoying listening to something where there are eyes around, I tend to sit back with my hand over my mouth and the bottom half of my face. Just sayin'

He means "is it an issue now?" to which the obvious answer is "why the AF do you think we're all here in this Tribunal?"

From TT

NC - some women had an issue with men in F facilities at L
AL - suppose first aware at the ??
NC - JN's response 22nd june to MK saying L toilets based on gender and align with workplace regs. She is saying it aligns
AL - yes
NC - so saying her many years... RR email 15th april

NC - sorry, looking for top of 225. 3rd line approach based on the law has been in place many years. RR's many years, JN's many years goes back to the regs in 1992 is that fair?
AL - JN said RR's point that it's been years, don't know how many.
NC - put the 2 emails together

Ah noone else has raised an issue an they were relying on folks to raise them

Sad times for Andy

I wondered how the Beatles would fit in!
Thank you this is v interesting, je bénis votre usernom de louange immortelle.😁

NC - It's my destiny at the moment to ask stupid questions 😂

From TT

NC - it would seem practice goes back to 92 at least, fits with what you said. Your evidence is that this practice has been in place since 92.
AL - it's never been raised, so never tested, relying on legislation, when practice started unaware
NC - either is 92 or at some point

NC: It's my destiny at the moment to ask quite stupid questions.

"Forgive me if some of these questions sound quite stupid. That's my destiny at the moment to ask stupid questions"

doesn't seem like this judge wants hypothetical questions or scenarios.
I wonder if NC will bring in Pete just because she knows we love Pete

The frequent throat clearing is such an obvious tell.

I imagine NC as a spider quietly weaving her web around Andy, and he thinks he knows where the danger is, but he's about to find out he had no idea