Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

99% certain I can - may have friends staying over tonight which would get in the way of TTing, but I'll know by this evening if I can.
If not I'll ask somebody else, so don't worry we'll manage!
Happy to do so if I can, and thank you for all your copying&pasting Myrtle
edited to say sorry I only spotted your post now

Oh, she won't be finished with him today.

Am I right that he's Leonardo's only witness? In which case he's on the hook for absolutely everything the company has ever done, said or published. Not that he's personally responsible, but he has to answer all the difficult questions all by himself, for everything, ever.

EDIT: I wonder if anyone told him that before he agreed to appear?

I. Am. Hanging. On. Her. Every. Word.

Thats definitely why she wanted to start today

I heart NC

I've got Naomi booming in my ears followed by mumble mumble

Suddenly it's worth giving up days to listen to this.

It's taking me straight back to Peggie v Fife & Upton
NC to witness for R:
It's right, isn't it that...
Do you agree with me that....

Also - I ask the questions. It's your job to answer them.

Wonderful stuff.

Oh he's clinging on to the bundle now - lots of scanning of pages looking for support / answers / an exit etc.

From TT

J - there is a date on it, may not have seen
NC - I can't see a date.
AL - not familiar with this
NC - date on 198, 10th Sept authorship or update. you haven't seen
AL - no
NC - at that date, this was on the L intranet. do you agree GI of the 2 sides of the debate, GI permeates

NC - drafted from that POV?
AL - can't answer
NC - I'll point out. Cisgender or cis defined uncritically as identifying with that asigned at brth
AL - heard but I'm not an authority
NC - GC people find this offensive a subcat of their sex
AL - don't know
NC - GC reject sex assign

But then I can't fully enjoy his squirming.

It's such a dilemma

I cannot hear his answers. ffs

NC is my secret crush. I saw her at an event once, and she just has an aura of calm intellect

Mumble, mumble, cough. Silence. Fiddles with page. Clears throat. Looks down.

The answer is not in the bundle, Andy.

He's suddenly not aware of a lot

Leonardo think being gay is an identity!

He's a bit lost.

I think he's into deep waters without his armbands and the shark is circling.

I think he is having to agree with NC. Sad times for Leonardo

Calm intellect - exactly.

It's the first time Andy is properly reading the bundle in court because he has to do it now.

hahaha we are going through the G's

Oh Andy we are so pleased for you.

I want a t shirt with

NC - the nature of this is I ask the questions

I'd bet money today is the first time he has bothered to even look at his company's own documents

Suddenly he is finding the bundle to be the most interesting thing in the room if it means he doesn't have to look up.

From TT

AL - ok
NC - so this takes the GI theory view
AL - yes
NC - deadnaming is a GI view, not a GC view of world
AL - don't know
NC - 196 - gay an identity where an individual is attracted to someone oof the same gender. lots of contentious things in that sentence.

AL - don't know how this was constructed
NC - accept gay and lesbians might find this offensive, homophobic even.
AL - not aware of that
NC - gender, masc and femininity, different or same as that assigned at birth, gender queer only meaningful to GI beliefs, accept?
AL - yes

It's T S Eliot all the way here:

When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall