Teacher asked DD how she IDs

[S1894PCohen]

My DD is a tomboy - short hair and trousers all the way - but has always been very clear that she's a girl. While I respect how other people want to live their lives and their right to believe whatever bollocks they like, I don't do gender ideology and neither does she.
Ever since she's started secondary school, she's been asked by other kids if she's trans. It boils my piss and I've contacted the school about it but she tends to just tell people she's a girl and shrugs it off as she doesn't want to make a fuss.
However this week she was mistaken for a boy by a teacher. When she and her pals told her she was, in fact, a girl, the teacher took her aside at the end of the class and asked "how she identified" and if she'd "ever identified as anything other than a girl". DD says this teacher flies a pink and blue flag above her desk...
I am livid - it's bad enough DD gets this shit from other kids, let alone a teacher. I've no doubt the teacher thinks she's "being kind" but I feel her behaviour is steeped in reactionary gender stereotypes. I'm minded to complain - WWYD?

Thank you for sharing this article MrsO. Safe Schools Alliance continues to be one of the best voices on this. I hope lots of people read it because it's all too easy for the Be Kinders not to realise how and why teachers' actions may significantly contribute to children being isolated from their parents.

It's such a key reason why we have safeguarding laws.

IMO this should be looked at a similar way to Prevent legislation because all of it involves coercive grooming. If a child was at risk of religious extremist radicalisation, we wouldn't expect teachers to take them to one side and quietly ask them if they know how much God/Allah loves them. Or if they're at risk of county lines recruitment, we don't expect teachers to quietly chat to them about how lovely it is that they've found a friendship group and don't feel lonely any more. Instead, we expect teachers to recognise and call out the coercive behaviour for the safeguarding issue that it is.

Looping in @2fallsfromSSA as they occasionally come onto MN and may be interested in this thread.

SSA, some context if you see this and don't get chance to read the whole thread:

The OP has raised a concern about a teacher who has taken her daughter to one side to quiz her on whether she really is a girl. PPs have been exploring this kind of behaviour as virtue signalling vs activism vs grooming. MrsO linked in an SSA article that explores some of the impacts on families if school leadership and safeguarding teams fail to recognise their ignorance.

Also a teacher here, of over 25 years.

Complain.

Not acceptable.

Excellent posts from @BonfireLady, @SingleSexSpacesInSchoolsand @MrsOvertonsWindow

keeping children safe in education 2025, the latest RSHE guidance and the impact assessment for that are all clear that biological sex is a priority and teachers are to remain neutral regarding discussions around the sex gender debate.

Asking how she identifies is not neutral. The teacher had been clearly told she was a girl. Saying so in front of the class was exceptionally humiliating and damaging. The teacher believes that she may have a gender identity and is communicating this in front of the class.

the teacher is sexist

Excellent post from you too @WarriorN

That said, I have to admit that I had a chuckle to myself that Glinner might swoop in and finish your last sentence with an alternative suggestion. Obviously this isn't a laughing matter but when the stakes are high (like the significant risks to children that are demonstrated in this thread), my dark humour sometimes kicks in.

I'm not going to explicitly say what he might suggest, as I don't want my comment deleted and obviously I can't read his mind.

But I'm going to say this instead: for a very long time, I was quite appalled by Graham Linehan's ranty tweets. For example, I couldn't understand why he was seemingly randomly labelling people as "groomers" when to my eye they were just attending a Pride event with children present. In hindsight, I now recognise that he was drawing attention to the type of clarity that SingleSexSpacesInSchools instigated on this thread. I've heard him saying since that he knew he would get headlines with it - and I've also heard his long form thoughts on it all. I guess it's a risk if you don't bring your audience with you when it comes to soundbites, but it's fair to say that I personally no longer think he's appalling. Vulgar and blunt sometimes, yes. But I now feel like I understand why and I thank him for it.

Hello,

I have an update: the school has agreed that the teacher's conduct was totally inappropriate and unacceptable. They have apologised profusely and assured us that it will never happen again.
My daughter had a chance to spell out exactly how the teacher's behaviour made her feel and the teacher has been spoken to by the SLT and reminded of professional standards and safeguarding obligations.
I also had a chance to discuss RHSE in general - I'm awaiting further information on if/how they teach gender identity theory but it does not feel at this stage that I'm dealing with a captured organisation.

Thanks so much for the helpful and supportive comments and advice - it made a difficult situation feel much more manageable.

This is very very good news well done for taking it so far despite all the risks and issues.

Was this an official documented complaint? Will the school commit to writing down the substance of the complaint, the details of what steps they will take immediately and steps they will take to prevent this in the future?

This is bloody amazing, OP! Well done you and well done to your daughter too for being brave enough to explain how it had made her feel 💪💐

It sounds like the school might get it...... so the next logical question is what are they going to do about it next? For example, will they tell staff not to "virtue signal" their belief in any what whatsoever? E.g. the flags that this teacher has, perhaps some are sharing their preferred pronouns in emails to students, do they teach children that the only way to be kind and respectful is to use someone's preferred pronouns?

In other words the key question is do they really get it?

Obviously that's not to take away from the brilliant news that you've just shared. But just a note of caution that their understanding might be superficial and because your daughter hasn't indicated that she has a gender identity that differs from her sex.

Good stuff. All the girls had short hair when I was younger. Still girls!

All the girls had short hair when I was younger. Still girls!

I primary school it was encouraged to avoid nits!

Will they be telling the teacher to take her Pride flag down?

That's a fantastic outcome OP. Well done to you and your DD for speaking out. You've made that school a bit safer for all children (and hopefully that trans flag has been binned)

It's very telling that so many of us are relieved and maybe surprised that the school recognised the breach of safeguarding and professional standards so promptly.

It a reminder that most schools centre children and their needs over the demands of trans extremist adults. The outlier schools must be challenged by the government and compelled to return to being politically impartial and to root out all adults using their role to gaslight children into the dangerous to children gender identity ideology.

This ⬇️

It's very telling that so many of us are relieved and maybe surprised that the school recognised the breach of safeguarding and professional standards so promptly.
It a reminder that most schools centre children and their needs over the demands of trans extremist adults.

👏👏👏👏

I remember a similar piece of good news being shared on a different thread. You have to scroll down a fair bit to get to the good news but according to this FOI, all schools in the Bolton Safeguarding Partnership are now expected to follow the draft Gender Questioning Children guidance, after the Safeguarding Partnership removed its previous "transgender children" guidance and replaced it with the DfE's draft GQC guidance. As guidance goes, it's not perfect...but it's definitely better than a gulf into which activist or teachers can fill the void with their own ideas.

I do hope the OP's leadership team demonstrates this deeper level of understanding by removing flags etc and putting some better guidance for staff on what is expected from them in place🤞🤞

And also this...

The outlier schools must be challenged by the government and compelled to return to being politically impartial and to root out all adults using their role to gaslight children into the dangerous to children gender identity ideology.

That’s good news, well done to your daughter, she sounds great!
Hope this makes the teacher stop and think….

This.
100%
In the light of the Cass report, this teacher is a safeguarding liability, and is also sticking her beak to something that is none of her business.

Oh this is a very heartwarming result. I’m so pleased there is sanity. Fantastic 👏

That's very good news, and good on the school for owning it and taking steps to sort it out.
Thanks for updating, OP.

Great update @S1894PCohen. You’ve been a fantastic advocate for your DD.

Firstly apologies, I have not read the whole thread properly but have the gist. It does sound like the school is taking this seriously but I would press them to understand their teachings around gender and how they will review their training in light of this.

for others reading, we would always recommend complaining as this is a failure of safeguarding and the understanding of safeguarding for all the reasons outlined so articulately here. We have a how to complain to your school guide here.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#How_to_Complain_to_your_Childs_School

I'll come back and read properly later

That’s excellent news re Bolton. I did see the FWR table of responses they had when questioning Greater Manchester councils about their adherence to the SC ruling.

I had an infuriating experience with my youngest’s DD’s school that’s in the Bolton area a few years ago.

A boy first presented wearing school dresses but still being called his name etc. I’ll call him ‘John’.
He’s an effeminate and probably gay lad who’s always knocked around with the girls.
At first I thought his parents were sensible and letting him be gender non conforming (clothes are clothes etc) but my fears were realised when, at about age 8/9, he became known as ‘Jane’ (obviously not real names)

To cut a long story short, I discovered he had been told to use the girls’ toilets, so contacted the head about this.
Totally in a ‘can you confirm this is true?’ questioning way and stated the law re SS provision in schools. The head (who’s now left and been replaced by a great chap) was such a misogynistic be kinder. Absolute arsehole who, after I called him on breaking the law and his safeguarding responsibilities, basically told me that if Jane has to use the correct facilities then I’m responsible for him and his family’s upset feelings 🙄

He would not get it that, even though I never referred to Jane by name (he actually did in his emails and my enquiries just said biological boys who identified as trans), that I had no problem with Jane in general. Jane regularly came round to play and have tea with my DD. It was the detrimental effect on school letting Jane use opposite SS facilities and school’s safeguarding failures that I was complaining about.

Jane was allowed to use the unisex staff/accessible toilets and the other parents of girls felt the same as me. This was a couple of years ago now. DD is at high school and Jane, according to DD, gets changed for PE in a single use room as well as using toilets that aren’t the girls’.

I’m glad that my area have said they’ll follow appropriate guidelines and laws but I’m sure there’ll be lots of pushback and entrenched shit that’ll need to be addressed.

DD is at high school and Jane, according to DD, gets changed for PE in a single use room as well as using toilets that aren’t the girls’.

It sounds like the Bolton area is getting its house in order on this kind of stuff, which is great.

That's one safeguarding risk ticked off successfully: the risk that Jane poses to girls is being managed successfully in a way that also supports Jane. I appreciate there are lots of viewpoints on this but for me, giving a trans-identifying student access to a third space is the best way forward (as described in the draft Gender Questioning Children guidance). It avoids the child feeling awkward in the single-sex space that is commensurate with their sex and it avoids anyone trying to decipher the child's motivation for wanting to access the opposite-sex space. It sounds like Jane probably isn't autogynophilic (you mentioned Jane is most likely gay) but as there's no way of looking in to Jane's head, a third space negates any of this risk too.

However, to continue on with Jane... the risk that's not being addressed is the risk to Jane of entering a pathway towards medical intervention, as per the warning in the Cass Report about social transition not being a neutral act. I really hope that school safeguarding leads grow a backbone and start safeguarding conversations with affirming parents - or refer them to Children's Services for further support if they can't.

The KCSIE guidance provides that opener. I appreciate it's difficult but safeguarding a child from any kind of risk like this is going to be. I might be oversimplifying things here but I would hope that schools can signpost affirming families towards the Cass Report, given it's mentioned in KCSIE. Ideally, they should also be able to suggest that parents might want to validate that whatever clinical support they seek is also aligned to the Cass Report so that, from a safeguarding perspective, everything joins up. What I don't know is where this kind of conversation becomes overreach into what is ultimately parental responsibility.

Do any teachers on here have examples that are nothing to do with gender identity on the line between safeguarding risk and ensuring that parents are making informed decisions? Child protection law sits under the DfE and schools are the front line. If they are concerned about the parents' ability to decipher information from misinformation, is this the point at which they should refer on?

"Do any teachers on here have examples that are nothing to do with gender identity on the line between safeguarding risk and ensuring that parents are making informed decisions? Child protection law sits under the DfE and schools are the front line. If they are concerned about the parents' ability to decipher information from misinformation, is this the point at which they should refer on?"

That's a good question - and a tricky one. Just as some schools have weaponised safeguarding (referring families to SS who don't immediately affirm a confused, mentally vulnerable child's decision they're the opposite sex), I'd be uneasy about them making the opposite judgment.

The ideal solution would be to frame it as ensuring that any child and their parents have access to informed support from those qualified in this area. If the long awaited gender questioning children guidance ever gets published, this would be the type of suggestion they should be making. Specifying the type of professional support that could be available while emphasising that adults or groups over invested in sex change for children should be kept well away.

Thank you. This is a really helpful way to look at it.

I'd be uneasy about them making the opposite judgment.

I agree. However, in some cases it may be simpler to recognise that a more active intervention is required e.g. if parents are breaking the law to gain access to puberty blockers for their child.

But in other cases, I can (reluctantly) see why schools can't (in essence) tell parents how to parent on this. Just because I think I'm on the Right Side of History, doesn't mean I can expect schools to agree and therefore trample over parental responsibility in law.

The ideal solution would be to frame it as ensuring that any child and their parents have access to informed support from those qualified in this area.
If the long awaited gender questioning children guidance ever gets published, this would be the type of suggestion they should be making.

I had a look through it to refresh my memory on the content that could help with this and have grabbed some screenshots. The overall takeaway here is that it does seem to give schools a way to carefully introduce affirming parents to an alternative way of looking at it, with safeguarding at its core. Although, frustratingly, the one and only mention of the Cass Report in this part of the document does create quite a muddle between sexual orientation and gender identity 🤦‍♀️ It's completely unclear what sex a "lesbian" and a "transgender male" are in this example, therefore it's unclear who is feeling what kind of "pressure". I guess the key takeaway there is that nobody should muddle up sexual orientation and gender identity ever, because children might feel pressured - so that's a good thing overall.

From a legal liability perspective, I assume schools could say that they are currently following the draft Gender Questioning Children guidance in the absence of any other information from the DfE and that they will adapt any future practices as necessary when this document is finalised.

Some screenshots from the draft GQC document ⬇️ They are slightly muddled in order unfortunately and I can't seem to fix that.

This is excellent news @S1894PCohen well done to you and especially your daughter. X

Also @Peregrina I think it was a trans flag, not a pride flag on the teachers desk which suggests even more that this teacher is an activist heavily into gender ideology and identity. Which is a worry, despite the update. Because who is to say she won't now find more covert ways to get her message across to pupils? Hopefully the op will keep her eye on it. Annoying that she has to though.