NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

But we don't have a fire at 3am!

To be honest if it was 3am i think I'd go on the bushes behind the tent. However I have trained myself to get through the night. As long as I avoid wine and beer and stick to clear spirits out works.

It's a woman squatting.

The toilet was in a very fancy Thai restaurant in London and the toilets themselves were usual western toilets. It was just the signs that confused me at first.

But I still have the loo roll issue if I totally 'wild' wee I can't get past the drippy sensation. We camp as part of an activity with a mixed but male dominated group and I really don't want to be waving soggy used loo roll in front of them or tossing it on the out fire for the first one up in the morning to discover (I'm never first up we have some crazy early risers).

Put it in a sandwich bag inside a makeup case that's for the purpose.
I've wild camped as part of an activity with all men. It's not my favourite but it's character building!

Get some Travel Janes. Fab bags with useful funnel effect top with some substance that turns liquid to solids. You wee, there's no odour then you dispose of the bag. I have them in the car because if I'm driving late alone I don't want to find a loo.

I think I'll just continue to remind DH that we need to be within reasonable distance of the loos! If we were wild camping I'd do what has to be done but there always are loos we just need to remind the blokes that while they think four fields away is a great spot it doesn't work for the women and smaller kids.

Toilets don’t tend to allow for the presence of a pram. It can be very difficult to close the door in that case.

Small cubicles don’t allow for helping your elderly mother with dementia to use the toilet.

In both those cases doors tend to get left open.

I keep one of these in my car for emergencies too.

So no consideration of women’s extra needs (space for a sanitary bin for example). Oh what a surprise.

Apparently, men drip too. Newton's fifth law is "No matter how hard you shake it, the last drop will always run down your leg".

Ew. Why don’t they use some loo roll then?

I guess that it doesn't occur to them. Are there rolls of loo paper by the urinals? Asking for a friend.

I’m guessing not, but there could be…If you know you’re going to have drips going down your leg, you think designers might consider it. Anyway, enough!

See also, "let's put the actual toilet smack in the centre of the back wall so it's nice and symmetrical - what do you mean, you don't like sitting with your leg against an overflowing sanitary bin?".

Only on home turf, unfortunately.

No, there are not.

And, of course, it's not a good idea, which is why it's never been done. In no time, you'd be ankle deep in wet bog-roll.

I see we’re still on toilets so one more post.

To previous posters, I have sent reports to MPs related to schools and health in the government. I have chatted/emailed various charities and organisations and HSE (BSR) too, particularly about FOI results. Everyone ‘gets it’ but it is difficult when healthy decision-makers say they prefer the privacy to safety as they don’t want people to hear them in a loo. One woman who was involved in Document T said the consultation was awful but her wish was ‘to have attendants like they used to’ in every set of toilets.

It is rare that designers think of women. The toilet should be centred after the sanitary bin goes in. Cubicles should be bigger for the fact we have to turn around and undress more. Women should have many more toilets than men to achieve equity as we spend longer per visit on average.

I originally started this campaign for the medically vulnerable. For document T the government commissioned a report for toilet design requirements for those with long term health conditions. However the common long term conditions of epilepsy, diabetes, asthma, heart conditions inc cardiac arrests weren’t mentioned. Neither were heavy periods or miscarriage.

In this long report there were only two references to menstruation: ‘Queer periods: attitudes toward and experiences with menstruation in the masculine of centre and transgender community’ and ‘Improving Menstrual Equity in the USA: perspectives from trans and non-binary people assigned female at birth and healthcare providers’. Providing sanitary bins in the men’s was discussed as was urinal heights for non- binary people. A pictogram (loo sign) for non-binary people was discussed at length. Reader, the company got a Stonewall award.

What about their remit? What about design for people with long term health conditions?! Enclosed designs were favoured (literature evidence: because transactivists preferred them in New York nightclubs) - but an enclosed design is dangerous for people suffering a seizure, hypo or cardiac arrest. What about women with heavy periods - if that’s not a health condition that is not related to toilet use, what is?

On a lighter note, I have edited to use longhand for ‘previous poster’ as pp sounds a bit of a piss-take.

That's why some of us don't like using urinals!

You can mini tents that you can put a portable loo in. That's what we use.

Always provided the site allows them. And some sites will charge for an extra tent.

When in the woods and wilds there is usually a wide choice of leaves and mosses that have admirable anti-drip properties.

Avoid stinging nettles.

We used a Caravan and Camping Club site and as long as the toilet tent fitted on our allocated space it was allowed. Might be worth looking into.

’urinal heights for non- binary people”

im sorry, but what the h?