NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

Agree with all that but the wording that Fife used in its public reporting on the disciplinary outcome did say the reflection should be submitted to NMC. It will be captured on the transcript of the tribunal because JR read an extract aloud in court.

As a separate issue to the tribunal, NMC issues guidance for employers, and also guidance for nurses of revalidation. Angela Glancy was wrong to conflate revalidation requirements with an internal disciplinary, and Fife was (characteristically) bonkers to publish the sanction on its website (in a case where they also say NMC referral was not made).

Thanks for that. It must feel so safe being a nurse working at NHS Fife and knowing that they're right behind you ... with a machete.

the wording that Fife used in its public reporting on the disciplinary outcome did say the reflection should be submitted to NMC. It will be captured on the transcript of the tribunal because JR read an extract aloud in court.

Thanks@NebulousSupportPostcard. I’d missed that and what a load of tosh. Fife can ask her to complete the reflective practice, but they can’t make her submit it to the NMC. For any non-nurses reading, the revalidation portfolios we put together are submitted to a “confirmer” who signs off that we have met all requirements. Only a small percentage are actually submitted to the NMC who ask for a random sample each year.

Typically, the Confirmer is a line manager or senior nurse, but importantly, it doesn’t have to be a line manager and it’s not hard to imagine Sandie looking elsewhere. I also don’t think she would struggle to find a suitable confirmer who is not connected to Fife.

Angela Glancy was wrong to conflate revalidation requirements with an internal disciplinary, and Fife was (characteristically) bonkers to publish the sanction on its website (in a case where they also say NMC referral was not made).

Completely wrong. Quelle surprise eh??

And yet I seem to remember that one of the senior doctors claimed that Sandie had been referred to the NMC, then had to admit that she didn't know why she'd said it and it wasn't true. If I had a nasty suspicious mind, I'd wonder if they'd been planning to use it as a way to make Sandie do as she was told and this is another 'look, we've still got power.' And the scary thing is that it'd have worked with most people and probably is working somewhere today. We women are going to owe so much to some very brave women and I'm thinking suffragette level women here.

It was Kate Searle, wasn't it, in her Poor Beth Horrid Sandie email to the consultant team? So not even just saying and then retracting - there in writing for ever.

To be fair I got the impression EP was one of the less captured ones. I think she may well have thought - God its Christmas Eve I've just done a late shift in the carnage that will have been A&E , I'm still on call and I just want to get home. If I say there there dear and get the manbaby to his car maybe he'll shut up and I can get out of here. I got the impression she was surprised he then spent the rest of the night typing up a load of notes.

Yes that was definitely the vibe I got and probably what I would have done. Made the right noises but in as neutral, none committal way as possible and got him the heck out of there.

I agree that EP was all round more shrewd in her judgement than the other witnesses. But still, if one party in an argument is in incredible distress (and especially if you think they are laying it on a bit thick in proportion to the events they describe) it would be sensible and professional at least to make contact with the senior nurse in charge to check that it is being handled properly on both sides.

It was Maggie Currer who said SP had been reported to the NMC in the Foot-in-Mouth email. She was quite cross with NC in court because she had no idea why she wrote it and that was that!

(We didn't know at the time, but The Fife 3 would have had to have received letters before claim on the new case against them, before appearing as witnesses in Jiuly, in order for the next claims to be issued in 6 August. Which, in retrospect, likely explains the surprising arsiness of KS and MC towards NC)

For some reason I just don’t believe that MC has no recollection of why she made such a bold statement in an email. Unless she is in the habit of commenting about referrals to governing bodies on a regular basis it just doesn’t ring true that she would write something so serious in an email to colleagues and then not be able to recall why she did so.

Aaaah, would that have been stategic timing to issue the letters when they did?

On the weighing of the evidence of witnesses and judges remarking that particular ones seem somewhat less than credible...

What will they of the screenshot of a photoshopped screenshot, provided by Betheodore? They didn't have his phone seized for a forensic examinations; and yet, and yet...

Bah!

What will they MAKE of...

It was rather 'how very dare you', wasn't it? But then that seemed to be the attitude of the NHS Fife doctors. Or, being fair, an awful lot of doctors when they get caught running things to what I think of as the parallel NHS rules. The 'this is how we do things here' approach is pretty pervasive in most state run services (although run may not be quite the right verb) along with the culture of circle the wagons and attack the complainer.

Being honest, what do we think the future holds for SP’s career? Because regardless of the outcome and as much as I hope this isn’t the case, I just can’t see a future where she would have an unblemished career moving forward.

Even if she wins, I imagine in the culture of healthcare that future managers will be wary of SP - NHS will likely move to dismiss her legitimately and non NHS employers would be able to search her and see all the articles about the litigation and associate her with risk. Plus, I imagine Fife is a small enough area where new employers might be aware of the tribunal from the news and recognise her name. Having things like “NMC referrals made against her” in the media, regardless of whether it was unfounded or not, will see people treat SP with a lot of distance and scrutiny.

I guess the ideal is that she is compensated for the potential impact to her career.

Her NHS nursing career is gone. That's a given.

There's the private sector.
But given how vindictive Fife have been i hope she gets a decent pay out.

I think her NHS nursing career is over. We can all see how she’s been treated, how can anyone ever come back from this.
But I really hope when, fingers crossed, she wins her case, she insists on returning to her A&E role and lets them all squirm over the thought of having to work alongside her while they sort out rotas etc. Before resigning!

Could be a plan @Conxis !

But in reality how could anyone go back to work in such a toxic environment with colleagues who didn’t offer support, and with management who were convinced of wrongdoing without any investigation. Where being an exprienced nurse appeared to count for nothing on an offended doctor’s say so. A doctor who was pushing accepted boundaries to make a point, with no care about the impact on colleagues, or even worse, on patients.

A nice pay off for SP please.

I thought I saw somewhere that there's a requirement for a minimum number of practice hours per year, to keep up registration - surely SP has missed these, with this drawn-out process?

The requirement is 450 hours in the 3 years preceding revalidation. I suspect SP is ok at the moment.

There are exceptions to this, for sickness,ill health -I would think her case would meet the requirement for exceptions.

I'd like to think (hope) other nurses were supportive even if they were too scared to speak out.
I'll bet some at least are relieved about Fifes change of policy.

TBH I can totally see why they'd be scared. Sandie herself turned up at her MPs office like a frightened rabbit.
But she's been so brave and its such a blessing that the MP put her in touch with the right people and her phenomenal backer.

Although as she only works 2 night a week, she'll run out sooner than a full timer would.

I have some, message me and I'll give it a go