Bristol Council insists women be called ‘people with ovaries’

[IwantToRetire]

The comments were made in a 39-page response to a consultation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) on updates to its guidance, following the ruling that sex in equality laws refers to biological sex.

It wrote that “not all pregnant individuals would use the pronouns ‘she/her’” so it could lead to “emotional and psychological distress” for “trans men, non-binary, gender diverse or intersex individuals”.

“We strongly advise the use of more inclusive language such as using ‘they/them’ to refer to all individuals, or include other identities to reflect the diversity of individuals who access maternity or paternity services,” officials said.

“This could include ‘people with ovaries’ or the term ‘people who use paternity services’. We also recognise that individuals may not identify with the word maternity and prefer paternity as it is gender neutral.

“Additionally, it is unclear what support will be available to trans people who chest-feed to ensure they are protected from discrimination.”
Protections based on biological sex are “too vague”, the response added, as: “It is unclear whether it refers to anyone capable of pregnancy, or only those who were assigned female at birth.”

Council officials complained that the new guidance implies that “trans women are not ‘really’ women” and risked “creating a hostile environment in public services”.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/council-says-women-called-people-with-ovaries/

And at https://archive.is/TOgKA

I don’t have ovaries so not sure where this leaves me !

Yes. They don’t know what paternal means.

Is this real? People paid to alter how we use language think Pater is a gender neutral term?

How dare you suggest that it's an "easy" solution for all female people who have not adopted a genderist personality label to default to the neo-sexist label "cisgender"?

I realise you think you are being reasonable, but take a step back and think about what you are saying.

Genderism is a niche, neo sexist belief system where the words Men and Woman and the related sex-based language are twisted to mean old fashioned ideas about men's and women's personalities rather than sex.

But for everyone else, these words just mean sex.

For genderists yes, I can see it's distressing when a word you understand to mean "feminine and girly" or whatever is used to refer to you when you do not see yourself that way just because you are female, but for everyone else, it is just as distressing to be defined by how happy you are about sexist sterotypes that came with your sex.

Putting sexist labels like "cis-" onto everyone because of some neo sexist people believe everyone's personality has to be defined by how normal it is for their sex based on sexist gender stereotypes is really not ok.

And using phrases like "women and trans men" to refer to female people is also not ok, because by accepting there is a difference between the two you are still accepting the neo sexist belief that a person can be female but have a personality that is not that of a "woman", and therefore still imposing sexist limitations on what a "woman" can be.

I certainly do not define myself as a neo sexist stereotype of womanhood simply because I have a female body and I reject utterly any attempt to force it on to me.

Between them, "woman" and "girl" in the original sex based meaning already encompass all the possible ways to be female.

It is only the neo sexists, who have changed those expansive and inclusive meanings to reduce those possibilities into a narrow set of traditional female sterotypes, who think there can be female people who are not women or girls.

The problem is not with the words "woman" and "girl", the problem is with the genderists' own narrow minded prejuduces about who those people can be.

…And Bristolians (and I count myself amongst them (NABALT)) also spend a lot of time trying to prove how right on they are. I made it out of BS7 by the skin of my teeth.

I suppose I shouldn't be, but I am always gobsmacked when people with such a sexist attitude post on this board.

same way we don't have homosexual and 'normal' we have heterosexual

Not comparable. Homosexual and heterosexual both refer to sexuality, which demonstrably exists.

'Cis' implies a relationship with gender identity, and is the equivalent of calling a non Christian a heathen.

Boom, woman is back!

Woman is a gender neutral word that refers to an adult human female. If you use it to refer to relative feelings of femininity, you are demonstrating your misogyny and sexism.

If you want to advocate for the rights of cis women (including me), go for it! Bristol clearly recognise that if a trans man used their service it would not be acceptable to refer to him as a woman.

You cannot advocate for the rights of any woman if you have no language to explain what a woman is. If you pretend that anyone could give birth, you are deliberately obfuscating the connection between reproductive role and the rights that women need to enable equality - rights to contraception, rights to sex specific medical care etc. etc. (Do you really need this spelt out?)

Why is it not acceptable to use clear unambiguous language in a healthcare setting, assuming no patient mental health issues?

I had both my children as a person without ovaries (IVF). I bet there are more women like me than there are people having babies who were not assigned female at birth.

I feel Bristol Council have a duty to make public this miracle of science.

They certainly can’t be called ‘people with balls’…..

I don’t have any ovaries so…..? They were removed when I had a total hysterectomy.

Just coming back to say keep quoting me and calling me a sexist, I don't see any value in engaging with people who are so entrenched in their views and obsessed with a very small population (your point btw) of vulnerable people to the extent I have seen here. I have questioned my own gender and decided I am a cis woman, I am grateful to my friends and husband who helped me work through what gender means to me. I'm proud to be a trans inclusive feminist and nothing anyone can say would change my view on that.

I know I can't change your view either, and that makes me sad in a way, but there is no debate to be had then is there. I see people here attack young trans folk posting online, you hound people on the LGBTQ children board who want support and love for their kids who have gender dysphoria to the extent that I would call it unsafe - nobody is off limits for you and that is incredibly sad. Hatred is a sad thing.

I hope in my lifetime we will see progress and I have hope for feminism in the future, I stand in solidarity with cis and trans women and NB people against the patriarchy and that's the last I'll say. Quote and @ me all you fancy. Having a terrible mental health day here frankly so I don't really need more negativity than there already is in the world x

@gudetamathelazyegg I think mumsnet sex and gender board is not the place for you today if you are feeling fragile.

Maybe come back and make your points another day when you are feeling a bit stronger. Most people on here assume you are up for a robust debate.

I haven’t hounded anyone.

I’m a survivor of a particularly violent rape and SA and non-fatal strangulation incident.

One of those who advocates for the inclusion of trans women in women’s single sex spaces told me that what mattered with my rape was his inclination.

Me and my consent is irrelevant, it’s only him that matters.

before my rape I thought like you. What harm does it do. Be nice. It doesn’t matter.

Im not trans inclusive now because I need those single sex spaces. I can’t be in a toilet and hear a man outside the door (for example). He came though the door shouting at me you see.

I couldn’t cope with a man in my counselling group. It wouldn’t be possible for me to be there.

If you let one class of man - trans women - in then you have to let them all in and I say no.

and the law respects the right of people like me to say no and have our single sex spaces.

Well you are right that you aren't engaging.

I have questioned my own gender and decided I am a cis woman

And you have decided this because...?

Women spent the twentieth century fighting against the confines of gender - for the right to work and be educated, for the right to vote, for the right to dress and love who they want. But apparently you are arguing that a woman who doesn't sufficiently identify with gender markers is not a woman? Can you not see how regressive this is?

I'm proud to be a trans inclusive feminist and nothing anyone can say would change my view on that.

You should certainly include all women in your feminism, regardless of how they identify. You just can't include men, regardless of how they identify. It's just how words work.

I see people here attack young trans folk posting online, you hound people on the LGBTQ children board who want support and love for their kids who have gender dysphoria to the extent that I would call it unsafe - nobody is off limits for you and that is incredibly sad. Hatred is a sad thing.

Not really relevant to my post, unless this is a personal accusation, which I assume it isn't. Again, you aren't engaging.

Having a terrible mental health day here frankly so I don't really need more negativity than there already is in the world

I hope your mental health improves. There really is no point at all in posting if you don't engage with any of the points made on the thread.

I will continue to quote anyone who posts, because that is how a message board works.

@gudetamathelazyegg I am sorry you’re having a terrible mental health day. I hope you feel calmer/better/more grounded off the board and into real life.

And yet it is you who are seeking to define everyone else regardless of who we are and how we think about ourselves.

You want to define yourself as aligning to sexist and oldfashioned ideas about women. That's fine if you feel that really does define you. But please do not impose that definition on to everyone else.

I remember when Feminists were called "Man-haters". Many men (and also some women) could not accept that any women were geninely unhappy with the way we were being treated. They prefered to believe that we were just twisted with hatred for men than examine their own behaviour and treatment of women.

But women saying no to sexist people is not "hatred". It is just saying No.

I actually checked the date on this thread to see if it was a zombie thread.

Are Bristol always behind the times?

I think it was that Guardian journalist who thinks she's a man (Freddie someone) and wanted to be listed as the father of the child she had borne.

I find it somewhat amusing that this topic (about a county in South West England) is being discussed all the way in Baton Rouge Louisiana. They have a very "Interesting" Message board there. "Political Board" and "OT Lounge" Quite fascinating . I always enjoy hearing what the "right" is saying. At least until i puke and have to get away .

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/o-t-lounge/meanwhile-in-britain/120334842/

Nor me.

And what do they think is the acceptable term for a person who as had their ovaries removed - due to ovarian cancer, for example?

How the TRAs have the nerve to say that it is the GC movement that wants to reduce women to their organs baffles me, when it is them who is doing it!

The topic is a council attacking feminism and women's rights, so if right wing people are learning something, great!

As Ive said, any guidance we have had has either said to say things like women AND pregnant people to include transmen and NB females or has said to only consider using language like "pregnant people" or other terms if you know the person you are talking to is trans.

So what you are saying is what happens in practice. I think all of this is just twisted to rile up some of you like it is.

If it’s a problem to call men, men, and an insult to their identity so they get “riled up” (using your word) then please explain how someone calling me a “person with ovaries” is not upsetting. Please don’t tell me or others how to feel

Are these councillors all 19 years old? Seriously!

What is a 'non binary female'? Can you explain.