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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR accused of 'quoting hitler'

284 replies

Dominoodles · 15/09/2025 22:38

Within the context of condemning political violence following the murder of Charlie Kirk, she quoted on X a line from Mein Kampf where Hitler talked about how he utilised political violence for his own gain. This was a clear statement in how allowing for political violence against one's rivals can lead to that in power manipulating things in order to harm others.

Unfortunately, articles are springing up across the internet shaming JKR for quoting or referring to this text at all, with many condemning her for 'nazi' views and accusing her of being far right.

(Personally I love JK, and it is such a shame that every single thing she says is twisted to mean the opposite of what she's actually saying!)

OP posts:
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SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:25

teawamutu · 27/09/2025 14:44

One last time, slowly and loudly: Answering. A. Question. About. Hitler. By. Quoting. Hitler. Does. Not. Make. You. A. Supporter.

If. You've. Been. Referring. To. Violence. And. Threats. As. Bad. Tactics. And. Someone. Asks. A. Fucking. Stupid. And. Insulting. Question. About. Whether. You. Would. Also. Say. Hitler. Is. Bad. And. You. Point. Out. That. He. Thought. Violence. Was. Good. You. Are. Obviously. Condemning. Him.

If. You. Have. Had. This. Explained. Eleventy. Billion. Times. And. Are. Still. Wanging. On. You. Are. Either. So. Fixated. You. Can't. Think. Straight, Thick. As. Mince. Or. Arguing. In. Bad. Faith.

Whichever. It. Is., Accusing. People. Who. Point. It. Out. Of. Being. Anti-Semitic. Is. A. Total. Dick. Move.

I think quoting Hitler was more than a dick move. It was an escalation with antisemitic undertones. Quoting part of Hitler’s plan to externinate Jews to a Jewish woman who has asked is Hitler on the list (of bad types) could be perceived as threatening. It’s the ultimate wave a bigger dick back at you move and completely appropriates the genocide of 6 million Jews just to make a point about violence on X. It’s not ethical.

SionnachRuadh · 27/09/2025 15:26

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:18

No, I would rather she not say and do antisemitic things if I’m being honest. One or two mistakes, followed by apology and affirmations are fair enough.

She should know better by now. That exchange on X is concerning.

No, here's what you said:

I am aware that whenever there is controversy over something she does or says that has antisemitic undertones that she very publicly and performatively affirms she is not antisemitic.

You're flat out saying here that, if she says what you want her to say, you're just going to assume it's in bad faith.

Do you use the same standard for anyone else?

teawamutu · 27/09/2025 15:27

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:25

I think quoting Hitler was more than a dick move. It was an escalation with antisemitic undertones. Quoting part of Hitler’s plan to externinate Jews to a Jewish woman who has asked is Hitler on the list (of bad types) could be perceived as threatening. It’s the ultimate wave a bigger dick back at you move and completely appropriates the genocide of 6 million Jews just to make a point about violence on X. It’s not ethical.

Please see my earlier comment, maybe even actually read it this time.

Not going to tell you to fuck off, as it's a public board and your right to use it, but this is tedious and I'm done engaging with you.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:30

@AnSolas
Pardon me, but I think we here at least are all aware of Hitler and the fact that he would be included on the list with fundamentalists, totalitarians and terrorists.

I don’t think a tick box exercise is necessary as I have said this before.

My issue is JKR could not bring her self to say ‘yes’ to a political opponent when asked if she would include Hitler on the list.

It’s a simple question. Surely the best way to show you think that is to just say yes and not deflect and quote the evil man himself. Like he has anything written worth repeating.

Kucinghitam · 27/09/2025 15:31

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:15

No. I did say at the outset that she should have responded to the question by saying ‘yes I include Hitler on that list’ or similar.

See
“SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · Today 14:23
My people’s suffering at the hands of Hitler are not your analogy.
JKR should have condemned Hitler, by saying yes I include Hitler in that.
Instead she quoted him.
It’s like JKR is so polarised she cannot even bring herself agree with a Jewish woman who supports TRAs that Hitler is abhorrent.
That should be obvious common ground, right?“

Edited

Ah, so JKR's real crime was not following your personal script for her.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:39

SionnachRuadh · 27/09/2025 15:26

No, here's what you said:

I am aware that whenever there is controversy over something she does or says that has antisemitic undertones that she very publicly and performatively affirms she is not antisemitic.

You're flat out saying here that, if she says what you want her to say, you're just going to assume it's in bad faith.

Do you use the same standard for anyone else?

I think most of us use the standard that says “actions speak louder than words” - which is the standard I use.

As I said upthread, and I have posted links as well to articles discussing it so it is not just me that has this discomfort- this is not the first or even the second time JKR has caused controversy by doing or saying something with antisemitic undertones.

The outcry over this latest event on X is yet another incident. How hard would it have been to agree with an opponent in a debate on women’s rights that Hitler is as bad as a fundamentalist, totalitarian and/or terrorist? Why the complete deflection/dodging of a straight answer? Why choose to answer with a quote from Hitler’s Mein Kampf instead of maybe a quote from someone on nonviolence?

I am not flat out saying if she says what I want, I will assume it is in bad faith.
I have said I’d rather that she stop doing and saying antisemitic things.

There have been several antisemitic “oops” by her. This last one has had no apology from her as far as I know.

Can you blame me for being uncomfortable? It’s not just TRAs that are concerned here, there are women like me on the same side as JKR for women’s rights who are concerned about JKR and antisemitism.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:41

Kucinghitam · 27/09/2025 15:31

Ah, so JKR's real crime was not following your personal script for her.

Obviously, she could have said something similar and that would have been fine. I have given an example so you understand generally what I would have found acceptable.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:41

teawamutu · 27/09/2025 15:27

Please see my earlier comment, maybe even actually read it this time.

Not going to tell you to fuck off, as it's a public board and your right to use it, but this is tedious and I'm done engaging with you.

Thank you, I guess? For not swearing at me in public.

DeanElderberry · 27/09/2025 15:54

I think JKR, and I, and various other posters, need to be thrown into deep water.

If we float we're antisemitic, if we drown we're not.

Obviously those of us from countries whose English word use is influenced by the fact its original language does not include 'yes' and 'no', and who thinks they sound rather rude, are doomed.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 16:08

It is in our own interest to call out and correct problematic behaviours within our ranks. The TRAs failure to call out and correct the violence in their ranks towards women has severely undermined their credibility and respectability. Let’s not make the same mistake as they have in their toxic masculine arrogance.

Not saying we need to be pure, we are all human women and allies and mistakes have been and will be made.

It is the unwarranted defence of mistakes and the failure to call out and correct them that is problematic and ultimately will delay or possibly discredit the entire movement.

Anactor · 27/09/2025 16:12

“The antisemite will accuse a Jew not because they think the Jew is guilty but because they want to force the Jew to turn out his pocket"”

Ladies, I think we’re being asked to turn out our pockets.

Namelessnelly · 27/09/2025 16:14

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 14:25

People who scream at protests where women are present are nothing like Hitler.
That is minimising the Holocaust to use Hitler & his victims (6 million Jews) in direct comparison to any street protest even civil unrest and riots that result in dozens killed.

So I assume you go on pro trans forums such as Reddit and condemn and scold those referring to the “trans holocaust” and the “trans genocide” and comparing women standing up for their sex based rights as NAzis. If not, why not?

moto748e · 27/09/2025 16:23

Seems fair. I'm sure the Holocaust and genocide are invoked way more frequently on Reddit than they are here on MN.

AnSolas · 27/09/2025 16:46

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:30

@AnSolas
Pardon me, but I think we here at least are all aware of Hitler and the fact that he would be included on the list with fundamentalists, totalitarians and terrorists.

I don’t think a tick box exercise is necessary as I have said this before.

My issue is JKR could not bring her self to say ‘yes’ to a political opponent when asked if she would include Hitler on the list.

It’s a simple question. Surely the best way to show you think that is to just say yes and not deflect and quote the evil man himself. Like he has anything written worth repeating.

Pardon me, but I think we here at least are all aware of Hitler and the fact that he would be included on the list with fundamentalists, totalitarians and terrorists.

Can you do a simple tick the box check to check if the quote selected can be used as evidence for each classification or not?

View point :
If you believe free speech is for you but not your political opponents, you're illiberal.
.
Answer:
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ agreeing with free speech or
□ is not agreeing with free speech
.
.
.
.
View point:
If no contrary evidence could change your beliefs, you're a fundamentalist.
.
Answer :
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ open to dialogue with opponents or
□ is not open to dialogue with opponents
.
.
.
.
View point
If you believe the state should punish those with contrary views, you're a totalitarian.
.
Answer
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ open to contrary views or
□ is not open to contrary views
.
.
.
.
View point
If you believe political opponents should be punished with violence or death, you're a terrorist.
.
Answer
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ agreeing with political violence /death or
□ is not agreeing with political violence /death

I don’t think a tick box exercise is necessary as I have said this before.

You are objecting to the quote.
Yet are choosing not look at the text used to establish if it proves (or not) that Hitler should (or should not) be classified within the groupings

My issue is JKR could not bring her self to say ‘yes’ ..

You make an assumption^ here.

If as you claim "we" do not need to check the quote to be aware that Hitler should be included why are you at the same time trying to argue that JKR must do something extra to prove something "we" are all aware of?

My issue is JKR could not bring her self to say ‘yes’ to a political opponent when asked if she would include Hitler on the list.

Now where exactly are you getting the idea that ציפי לביא @tzippylaviand JKR are political opponents?

Are you implying that ציפי לביא @tzippylavi would not classify Hitler the same way that JKR would?
That she is pro-Hitler or politically pro-Hitler tactics?
If that is your opinion what evidence can you supply to support your opinion?

It’s a simple question. Surely the best way to show you think that is to just say yes and not deflect and quote the evil man himself.

here ^ you need to prove there was a defection

So which box gets ticked?

View point :
If you believe free speech is for you but not your political opponents, you're illiberal.
.
Answer:
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ agreeing with free speech or
□ is not agreeing with free speech
.
.
.
.
View point:
If no contrary evidence could change your beliefs, you're a fundamentalist.
.
Answer :
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ open to dialogue with opponents or
□ is not open to dialogue with opponents
.
.
.
.
View point
If you believe the state should punish those with contrary views, you're a totalitarian.
.
Answer
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ open to contrary views or
□ is not open to contrary views
.
.
.
.
View point
If you believe political opponents should be punished with violence or death, you're a terrorist.
.
Answer
''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf
.
Is Hitler
□ agreeing with political violence /death or
□ is not agreeing with political violence /death

has JKR not proved Hitlers position by using Hitlers own written words?

If you feel that she has not proved his position and therefore which classification he falls within can you please explain where you think she erred?

Like he has anything written worth repeating.

IMO the quote clearly proves that Hitler has a political position on how to gain and hold power.
Would you disagree with that assessment?
If you do disagree why do you disagree?

IMO there are many people living today who hold the same views about how they should obtain and mantain their political power or spread their political message. So why hide or deny the fact that Hitler had that political position?

AnSolas · 27/09/2025 16:52

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 15:39

I think most of us use the standard that says “actions speak louder than words” - which is the standard I use.

As I said upthread, and I have posted links as well to articles discussing it so it is not just me that has this discomfort- this is not the first or even the second time JKR has caused controversy by doing or saying something with antisemitic undertones.

The outcry over this latest event on X is yet another incident. How hard would it have been to agree with an opponent in a debate on women’s rights that Hitler is as bad as a fundamentalist, totalitarian and/or terrorist? Why the complete deflection/dodging of a straight answer? Why choose to answer with a quote from Hitler’s Mein Kampf instead of maybe a quote from someone on nonviolence?

I am not flat out saying if she says what I want, I will assume it is in bad faith.
I have said I’d rather that she stop doing and saying antisemitic things.

There have been several antisemitic “oops” by her. This last one has had no apology from her as far as I know.

Can you blame me for being uncomfortable? It’s not just TRAs that are concerned here, there are women like me on the same side as JKR for women’s rights who are concerned about JKR and antisemitism.

Where are you getting the opinion that ציפי לביא @tzippylavi is a TRA?

The text is about the current state of politics

J.K. Rowling @jk_rowling. Sep 11
If you believe free speech is for you but not your political opponents, you're illiberal.

If no contrary evidence could change your beliefs, you're a fundamentalist.

If you believe the state should punish those with contrary views, you're a totalitarian.

If you believe political opponents should be punished with violence or death, you're a terrorist.

ציפי לביא @tzippylavi. Sep 11
Do you include Hitler in that?

J.K. Rowling. @jk_rowling Sep 11
Replying to @tzippylavi
Many who scream 'fascist' at opponents fully endorse his methods.

''The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
Adolf Hitler
Mein Kampf.

SionnachRuadh · 27/09/2025 17:23

Perhaps also remembering that the context of the exchange is the murder of Charlie Kirk. The main response from liberal/left opinion formers being "murder bad, but here are 50 reasons why Charlie Kirk was a Hitler level bigot and kinda had it coming".

Allow me to rephrase.

JKR: Using violence against political opponents is wrong

Tzippi: Would you include Hitler among the opponents it's wrong to use violence against?

JKR: Funny you should say that, a lot of people who make a lot of noise about being "anti-fascist" have distinctly fascist-style methods

Tzippi's point, it seems to me, is a rather boring rhetorical gotcha, because in any discussion of why political violence is a bad thing, someone will say "what about Hitler?" and then you reply "well not Hitler obviously" and before you know it the condemnation of violence is turned into a squabble about precisely who is adjacent enough to Hitler to be a suitable subject for violence.

Some people are absolute pacifists. JKR isn't. But her not wanting to get drawn into that squabble is not unreasonable.

It's often said that "antifa" isn't an organisation, it's an idea. But really it isn't even that. There's a certain percentage of young men who want a bit of aggro. Among young men of a certain background, the socially acceptable way of doing this is to target outgroups and bill it as "anti-fascism". Spend any time listening to the young men in question, and it's very clear that they aren't political sophisticates, and you can tell instantly what their main motivation is. If they came from a lower socio-economic background they'd be football casuals, but the "antifa" label gets them cover from people who should know better.

I'd also argue that they don't waste time debating whether someone is technically a fascist; an article online branding any individual as "far right adjacent" is enough to paint a target on their back and signal that they are an enemy of the people and should be assaulted on sight.

JKR knows all this context. It's a real stretch to say she's quoting Hitler approvingly.

And by the way, if we're talking about bad faith, plenty of the people who love to do the "JKR did an antisemitism" routine also spent years denying there were any issues with Corbyn.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/09/2025 17:23

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 14:29

I’m not on TRA forums because I’m not TRA.
I am fairly intelligent thank you. Perhaps try and understand my point of view. It’s hard when you’re not Jewish to see things that are problematic to us.

I really hope we can agree on how problematic it is to weaponise the Holocaust and Hitler in support of women’s rights.

Do you think it is equally problematic to weaponise the Holocaust in the name of trans rights? Because that's something which happens a lot more frequently.

Not that I agree that that is what JK Rowling was doing. But it is what trans activists do.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/09/2025 17:42

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice

If I follow correctly, you are reading the question "Do you include Hitler in that?" as "Using the criteria you just listed, do you then consider Hitler to be illiberal, fundamentalist, totalitarian and/or terrorist?". In which case JKR's reply is basically "Yes, obviously, have you read what he said? Furthermore, isn't it worrying how many of the people who stand against what he stood for are adopting his methods?"

I read the question "Do you include Hitler in that?" as meaning "You are saying we should extend free speech to our political opponents, that the state should not punish those with contrary views, and that polititical opponents should not be punished with violence or death. But would you include Hitler in your tolerance? Would you support Hitler's free speech? Support Hitler's right to say whatever he wanted to without punishment by the state? Are you saying that Hitler did not deserve violence or death for his political views?"

And I believe the person who asked that asked it in bad faith trying to catch JKR out because there is no straight answer that will not condemn her and be tweeted round the world before the truth can get its boots on.

If she says "No, I'd make an exception for Hitler. Some political views are awful that even just as words they deserve to be met by state supression and violence" then she would immediately be branded a hypocrite, with TRAs replying that saying trans women are men is hatred on the same level as Hitler so what is she complaining about, and BTW is this you agreeing we can kill you now?

If she says (as I suspect her view may be) "Yes. Even Hitler. Until he acts on those words we should not imprision or kill him for them. He should be free to say them so we can be free to challenge them in sunlight, in public" then - well. Ain't no way that is not immediately going to be reported as "JKR supports Hitler's words".

And if she says nothing, it's "JKR dodges question to avoid condeming Hitler".

So yes, she did deflect. She gave the only defense to the "would you extend free speech and protection from violence to someone who if they gain power would take those away from you?" challenge, which is to step out of the immediate framing and say "And yet both that person and you wish to take away free speech and protection from violence. You should think about that."

Honestly, I think my take is far more likely. The first interpretation is an easy ball - "Hey JKR do you think Hitler is bad?" "Yes. Next question". Why would someone who thinks JKR is secretly antisemitic, claims not to be but leaves all sort of secret clues and dog whistles for them to expose give her an easy question like that?

No, I think my reading, in which both Yes or No can be spun to discredit her, is far more likely. I think she did deflect, not to dodge a good faith question she doesn't want to answer, but to avoid a bad faith question and shine a light on to bigger picture.

And this logic holds even if the original questioner was, contrary to the majority of people asking such questions of JKR, asking the first question in good faith out of genuine interest. It just requires that JKR read the question as the second, bad faith take to explain why she replied as she did.

To be clear, I am not minimising your distress and anger at JKR for repeating Hitler's words in a context you see as trivialising them (and indeed compared to the Holocaust, what context is not trivial?). I am absolutely not suggesting you should be ok with that. However, I do think taking JKR's reply as her dodging the question of whether Hitler belongs in the list illiberal, fundamental, totalitarian and terrorist is a misinterpretation of her meaning and motive.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/09/2025 17:46

Or as @SionnachRuadh said much more succinctly than me, JKR was trying to sidestep this: "in any discussion of why political violence is a bad thing, someone will say "what about Hitler?" and then you reply "well not Hitler obviously" and before you know it the condemnation of violence is turned into a squabble about precisely who is adjacent enough to Hitler to be a suitable subject for violence."

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2025 17:48

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 27/09/2025 14:17

I am not ignoring the context.

She purposefully selected a Hitler quote on his plan for how to kill all Jewish people in Europe as her clap back to a Jewish woman on X asking if JKR would condemn Hitler.

The way the conversation reads, JKR did not answer the question, instead she deflected by quoting one element of Hitler’s plan to genocide all the Jews in Europe as her answer.

That has caused me a lot of discomfort and concern about JKR, and not for the first time.

Oh give it a rest.

No she did not.

The endless deliberate offence and misrepresention is not only tiresome but utter bollocks. Usually with a side dollop of guilt tripping.

No.

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2025 17:50

Anactor · 27/09/2025 14:55

So basically … JKR did answer the question, but that was unacceptable.
If JKR did decline to answer the question that would be unacceptable.

If she answers, she’s a witch and if she refuses to answer that proves she’s a witch…

Don't forget

Women accused of being witches proved they weren't witches by helpfully dying when they drowned by the ducking stool.

Maaate · 27/09/2025 17:52

Meh, that poster quoted Hitler twice in their condemnation of JKR so they can shove their discomfort

Kucinghitam · 27/09/2025 17:53

Maaate · 27/09/2025 17:52

Meh, that poster quoted Hitler twice in their condemnation of JKR so they can shove their discomfort

It's an irregular verb Wink

FlirtsWithRhinos · 27/09/2025 18:08

And since the topic has come up again, the Goblins.

FWIW I think they are antisemitic, not because JKR has any antipathy towards Jewish people but because she was using themes from British literary fantasy and fairytales, some of which go back hundreds of years and have racist elements because those times had racist norms.

I doubt it ever occured to JKR, when she imagined her goblins using all the images of goblins she'd seen and read over the years, that those traditional images include elements of racist Jewish cariactures. Honestly, I doubt even the people who mixed those elements in in the first place realised they were doing it. I think our cultural image of what a miser/banker looks like came from antisemitism and so when artists and writers (not just JKR but artists both known and anonymous over the years) imagined gold loving races of goblins or dwarves they naturally gave them the images they associated with a miser/banker.

In short, I think it's far more accurate to accuse JKR of being derivative than antisemitic. I don't think she put enough orginality into her races to have any space to introduce her own prejudices!

(Sorry JKR. I like the films and the books were enjoyable but they were not exactly original.)

Shedmistress · 27/09/2025 18:09

One point to note.

If you read a list of descriptors and think it is written about a particular group, and shout about how 'whateverist' the author is, may I point out it is YOU that made that connection so it is YOU that is 'whateverist' not the author. So you might need to cancel yourself.

Swipe left for the next trending thread