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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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Shortshriftandlethal · 11/09/2025 21:08

nomas · 11/09/2025 20:58

They absolutely are extreme views.

We don't know who has done this yet, but Trump has blamed it on “radical left political violence". That is not only extreme, it's irresponsible and can lead to violence.

Saying that every leftist organisation needs to be shut down is something out of 1984! How can you not think that's extreme?

Elon telling his followers 'the Left is the party of murder' encourages murder against the left.

You do realise which forum you are posting on? I'm sorry, but I've joined the latter stages of this thread only now....but are you American? You may not be familiar with the FWR board, but many of the women here are long time leftist activists of one stripe or other who have themselves come to question much of leftist dogma. Pretty much as a consequence of how the Left ( influenced by U.S 'progressive' identity politics) has been sabotaged here in Britain and subsequently submerged in virtue signaling purity spirals around 'trans rights' and BLM and all of the rest of it.

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 21:08

'The left is the party of murder.'

Both parties are parties of murder. Melissa Hortman, Daniel Salas, almost Nancy & Paul Pelosi, almost Josh Shapiro (arson attempt on his house), almost John Hoffman and Yvette (by the same man who shot Melissa Hortman and her husband)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2025 21:08

nomas · 11/09/2025 20:58

They absolutely are extreme views.

We don't know who has done this yet, but Trump has blamed it on “radical left political violence". That is not only extreme, it's irresponsible and can lead to violence.

Saying that every leftist organisation needs to be shut down is something out of 1984! How can you not think that's extreme?

Elon telling his followers 'the Left is the party of murder' encourages murder against the left.

Yes, those are also extreme views and the political capital being made is alarming (and predictable). Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2025 21:09

nomas · 11/09/2025 21:07

No, none of the people I quoted said that.

Yes, there’s a reason why not.

OtherS · 11/09/2025 21:09

nomas · 11/09/2025 20:55

I never said it did? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, sorry.

That was a reply to Eresh, not you.

Your reply to me was:

"No one here thinks it's a good thing. I wouldn't even go on X/FB for opinions, nothing rational there."

I suppose I just didn't really understand how that was relevant to my post? I was saying that I'm horrified that people are celebrating someone being murdered for their opinions, I don't see that it much matters whether it's happening on MN, BlueSky, X or the local bellringing meetup group. The fact that it is happening in large numbers anywhere terrifies me, personally. If someone is fine with it happening to this bloke, it must necessarily mean they're ok with it happening to someone on 'their side'. And that's not a society any sane person would push for.

2021x · 11/09/2025 21:11

GoldThumb · 11/09/2025 21:03

There are thousands of posts celebrating his death.

Literally thousands of them.

Absolute revelry.

I’m shit stirring for observing it and feeling uneasy about it?
My post is what you take issue with?

Go away

I observed that you observation is biased, and creating alarm without reporting all the facts.

There maybe "1000's" of posts celebrating it, but there are equal if not many more condemming it, even from people who disagreed with it.

Therefore my conculsion is your are only posting to create panic and the illusion that a group of people are disgusting and should be feared.

This is the shit, that I beleive you are stirring up.

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 21:12

Shortshriftandlethal · 11/09/2025 21:01

It may have been said with more than a bit blunt of bluntness and a lot of provocation, but it is true that women are at peak fertility in their late teens and twenties. This fact can sit uncomfortably with the fact that girls and women can now expect to put off having children, if they do at all, until their 30's - for whatever reason.

This is really a very recent phenomenon, and is one that is still largely confined to middle class populations in western societies. Women in the rest of the world generally continue to have children at much younger ages.

Should we not ever be permitted to sit back and reflect on the consequneces of this.......not just for society, but for women themselves? Should we never take stock and reflect on where we find ourselves and the play-offs we have to make in order to be congruent with what is considered normal for middle class, eduacted women in the west?

What if women do actually want to have a family, but find themselves in their thirties and approaching the 'end times' of biological clock, and with a dearth of decent men prepared to commit, or be even worth having?

Does saying intentionally provactive things automatically mean hate?

I agree there are issues w holding off fertility, and that should be discussed.

But the comment he made seemed to be a general comment that women over 30 are 'past their prime'. Not specifically referring to fertility. That would have been more reasonable.

Squares oddly w his wife being 32 when they married...

I notice you that's the only comment you chose to address.

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 21:12

2021x · 11/09/2025 21:11

I observed that you observation is biased, and creating alarm without reporting all the facts.

There maybe "1000's" of posts celebrating it, but there are equal if not many more condemming it, even from people who disagreed with it.

Therefore my conculsion is your are only posting to create panic and the illusion that a group of people are disgusting and should be feared.

This is the shit, that I beleive you are stirring up.

This!

nomas · 11/09/2025 21:15

2021x · 11/09/2025 21:02

They are set in the same style as ChatGPT and Co-Pilot aka bullet points with a bold heading, and non-bold text.

These are LLM not fact finders, and are very susceptible to disruption and bias.

If you are going to use a LLM to formulate your posts, you need to check that that is what has acutally been said, not just a sound bite that fits in with the theme.

Here are the sources for the quotes. Which of these do you think is disruption/bias?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-shooting-death-trump-reaction

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-charlie-kirk-assassination-b2824455.html

https://x.com/LauraLoomer/status/1965893424042606861

hamstersarse · 11/09/2025 21:15

The more it has settled into my brain what just happened to him, the more upset I am.

He was literally trying to have conversations with people, who often disagreed with him. I can’t believe people are celebrating his death, justifying his death, saying “what do you expect”

I feel the baddies have been exposed by this event, very clearly and I for one, will be sure to never shy away again from speaking in public about what I actually think about things like the trans issue, it’s not fair to remain silent anymore

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 21:16

Shortshriftandlethal · 11/09/2025 20:42

Perhaps, in his own way, he is simply making some kind of critique of contemporary society? You can easily counter that with argument, without having to label it as hate. Do any of his arguments have any merit at all, or can they all be easily dismissed?

Most of those comments are reasonable if tactless.

I get the impression Kirk was a v online person who liked to debate in a 'own the libs', trollish style. Spending time w a lot of 20 yos probs had an effect.

The stuff on MLK is truly ridiculous & disrespectful.

BettyBooper · 11/09/2025 21:16

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 11/09/2025 20:36

I agree - everyone should have their opinion. Political violence is never OK. But if Republicans continue to marginalise the vulnerable, spew hatred, and mock their suffering then violence will continue to rise.

When enough people in society feel hopeless, broken and voiceless that's a dangerous state of political affairs. Revolutions have started for less.

Edited

But if

And when people are called 'bigot' for expressing their view, it will equally create a dangerous state of affairs.

You are assuming your view is the good and correct one. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that debate is the answer, which let's face it, is not being embraced by the left.

nomas · 11/09/2025 21:17

Shortshriftandlethal · 11/09/2025 21:08

You do realise which forum you are posting on? I'm sorry, but I've joined the latter stages of this thread only now....but are you American? You may not be familiar with the FWR board, but many of the women here are long time leftist activists of one stripe or other who have themselves come to question much of leftist dogma. Pretty much as a consequence of how the Left ( influenced by U.S 'progressive' identity politics) has been sabotaged here in Britain and subsequently submerged in virtue signaling purity spirals around 'trans rights' and BLM and all of the rest of it.

Edited

I'm a Londoner and a feminist through and through, and not really sure what your post has to do with the incendiary rhetoric posted by Trump, Musk et al that I quoted.

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 21:18

TheignT · 11/09/2025 20:49

Not sure how guns turned into hind.

He answered a question about trans shooters minutes before being shot.

TheJoyOfWriting · 11/09/2025 21:20

Rosscameasdoody · 11/09/2025 19:08

I think if he meant specific women why didn’t he just say that - why the need to point out that they’re black and accuse them of ‘taking white womens’ slots’ ?

Probs a reference to affirmative action/DEI and black people.

2021x · 11/09/2025 21:22

My point is that you have used AI to generate your post. You didn't collect them yourself.

To use a LLM maybe quicker, but should be used cautiously especially as the feelings around this are high. LLM are not critical thinking machines and can only synthesis response dependent of the data it is fed.

I don;t know Mumnet policy on using AI, but it is not Google, and any response that is LLM generate will always be less trustworthy then a person genuine response.

nomas · 11/09/2025 21:22

hamstersarse · 11/09/2025 21:15

The more it has settled into my brain what just happened to him, the more upset I am.

He was literally trying to have conversations with people, who often disagreed with him. I can’t believe people are celebrating his death, justifying his death, saying “what do you expect”

I feel the baddies have been exposed by this event, very clearly and I for one, will be sure to never shy away again from speaking in public about what I actually think about things like the trans issue, it’s not fair to remain silent anymore

He had instructions from Trump to mobilise college kids to support and vote for Trump, and he was good at it.

For his efforts, he was paid millions by Republican donors. So it wasn't just 'literally trying to have conversations with people'.

The video content from those conversations are posted on YouTube and also generate massive amounts of money for him.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 11/09/2025 21:22

There is no "right" and "left" there are only extremists and centralists. Its a spectrum not a division.
The extremists are having reactions like "he was a matyr to free speech" and "I am glad he is dead".
The centralists are saying "I disagree with him" and "no-one should be killed"
The extremists want debate, the centralists want discussion

this, well put

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 11/09/2025 21:25

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2025 20:49

Yes I don’t disagree. It is most definitely not an issue exclusive to one side or another.

Yes, extremism exists on both ends of the political spectrum. But I’d argue that American right wing extremism tends to result in greater losses of liberty for the poor, vulnerable and underprivileged.

American left-wing extremism tends to involve expanding freedoms or benefits to groups in ways some consider excessive (e.g., abortion, trans rights, gay marriage, universal healthcare, immigration) which can result in economic instability and friction in communities. However what America considers extreme left is generally moderate-center in Europe. The American left also has a tendency to label critics of iliberal policies as “deplorable”, "bigoted", etc- which shuts down meaningful conversation.

By contrast, American right-wing extremism, often seeks to dehumanise minorities and vulnerable groups, and actively strips away their rights, through policies and rhetoric reminiscent of the beginnings of fascism and segregation, for example:

Women: restricting abortion, undermining maternity rights, and promoting values/policies that limit women's career and lifestyle choices.
The poor: cutting access to healthcare and imposing tariffs without concern for economic impact; limiting employee rights
Black people & minorities: denouncing the civil rights movement, denying the legacy of slavery, using stereotypes to justify institutional racism and systemic bias (i.e. greater rates of incarceration of minorities for the same offence), and dismissing accomplished minority figures as mere “diversity hires.”
Immigrants: dehumanising immigrants through rhetorics that compares them to vermin and blames them for societal problems; deporting legitimate citizens and/or people who have contributed to American society for many years without issue; viewing white people as the only true Americans leading to different treatment of white and minority immigrants
Gun control: refusing to regulate firearms, even though the resulting deaths far outnumber those supposedly “protected” by the right to bear arms.

This is my view, but I'm sure many will disagree.

GoldThumb · 11/09/2025 21:25

2021x · 11/09/2025 21:11

I observed that you observation is biased, and creating alarm without reporting all the facts.

There maybe "1000's" of posts celebrating it, but there are equal if not many more condemming it, even from people who disagreed with it.

Therefore my conculsion is your are only posting to create panic and the illusion that a group of people are disgusting and should be feared.

This is the shit, that I beleive you are stirring up.

I’m creating alarm?
Not the people posting themselves dancing, singing, laughing with joy? At a man being shot in the throat, in front of how many college kids?

But it’s me that’s sowing division?

It’s just an ‘illusion’ I’ve made up?

I’m not allowed to express that the sheer joy being displayed, so openly, is absolutely fucking insane?

I have to moderate my uneasiness because you, the apparent fucking arbiter of morals and motive, has decided so?

No.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 11/09/2025 21:27

RegimentalSturgeon · 11/09/2025 20:40

His reproductive status is entirely irrelevant.

There is no excusing the violent execution used against a young father person. 🙄

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2025 21:28

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/09/2025 16:36

https://x.com/babybeginner/status/1966064272552906996

URGENT. FYI.

After Charlie Kirk, on the sky app there are people asking for the next person to be targeted. These include JK Rowling, Matt Walsh, Trump, Ben Shapiro, Libs of TikTok, Elon Musk, and Andy Ngo.

I took as many screenshots as I could.

she means the cesspit that is Bluesky, obvs.

Bumping my earlier post. She links screenshots.

McSteamyorMcdreamy · 11/09/2025 21:29

There were some things he said I completely agreed with.

There were some things he said that I completely disagreed with.

I despair at the fact that there are people that will celebrate/condone the murder of someone based on the opinions.

NotBadConsidering · 11/09/2025 21:32

At a man being shot in the throat, in front of how many college kids?

In front of his own kids 😢

FuckOffWithYourEllipses · 11/09/2025 21:32

2021x · 11/09/2025 21:22

My point is that you have used AI to generate your post. You didn't collect them yourself.

To use a LLM maybe quicker, but should be used cautiously especially as the feelings around this are high. LLM are not critical thinking machines and can only synthesis response dependent of the data it is fed.

I don;t know Mumnet policy on using AI, but it is not Google, and any response that is LLM generate will always be less trustworthy then a person genuine response.

So what if she did?

Some people use ChatGPT to better express the point they want to get across. It doesn’t make their contribution to a discussion any less valid.

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