Women’s privacy and dignity

[Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks]

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

‘No person or identity group is an island & if you think women can do without the 'help' of men or vice versa I have a very nice bridge to sell you…’

Women don’t need ‘help’ from men in our SSS, to which we are legally entitled. Men, however they identify, can use the men’s facilities.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/15/trans-australian-uk-britain-tolerance

Do we all remember this person?

The one who forced his way into a female single sex toilet based on how he was dressed. Because he chose the toilet's to use depending on how he presented at the time. Meaning, as a 'trans person' he was still safe in the male single sex toilets every time he chose to use them.

More and more people are seeing the disconnected thinking behind this constant stream of emotionally manipulative reasoning for why one group of vulnerable male people need to have special treatment over all other groups of vulnerable male people. All based on one groups psychological belief about themselves that doesn't reflect material reality.

The question 'why' really does need to start being answered.

This is not relevant to the UK or toilets. And let's have a definition of 'victimisation'. Is it correctly sexing a person?

False. There's no evidence trans people offend at the same rate as men. In fact the evidence shows just the opposite.

"Transgender People, Crime and Prisons – Prevalence
While there is a consistent stream of media attention concerning trans people involved in crime, statistics show cisgender people commit crimes more regularly than trans people. The makeup of the England & Wales (E&W) prison population shows this:
The E & W cisgender population is 59.6 million – the cisgender prison population is 87,900 = 0.15% of people in E & W are in prison.
The E & W trans population is 262,000 – the trans prison population is 268 = 0.1% of trans people in E & W are in prison.
From this statistic, we learn that cisgender people commit crimes at a 50% higher rate than trans people.
Evidence from the research conducted by Olga Suhomlinova and Saoirse Caitlin O’Shea using official statistics dating from 2021 revealed that while 0.5% of the population identify as transgender or non-binary, they represented just 0.2% of the prison population.
Transgender People, Crime and Prisons – Trans Women & Trans Men
Another anomaly in the statistics is that while 96% of the cisgender prison population is male and 4% female, the trans prison population is 84% trans women and 16% trans men. The reasons likely include trans men suffering depression, anxiety, discrimination, unemployment issues, and, consequently, poverty. For safety reasons, trans men nearly always elect to be housed in the female estate. Likewise, as long as not convicted of any violent or threatening act against natal females, trans women should be housed according to the safety risk they face."

https://translucent.org.uk/transgender-people-crime-and-prisons/

Thank you
for your clear information base style posting.
🌻

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

Again, not relevant to toilets

Not that old shite again.

1. It's not relevant to the UK.
2. It groups various different unrelated behaviours under a single heading of "victimization".
3. It suffers from a self-reporting bias.
4. The sample size is too small to be meaningful.

Now please provide even one single verified case of a trans identifying man being harmed whilst using men's toilets in the UK.

That’s not from the UK.

This press release keeps appearing on this board

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

Along with this quote.

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

I have a few issues with this press release. I think it has been used widely and extensively since it was released. I believe this document discusses those crime statistics

escholarship.org/content/qt7c3704zg/qt7c3704zg.pdf?t=qqfomk&v=lg

It refers to 369 trans people vs 435 061 people who were not trans identified in a study.

How strange that the sample size was not mentioned at all in the press release!!
I might have forgotten most of what I learned from my Statistics module at uni but 0.0008 (0.08%) is not a population that you could draw many confident conclusions from. And it would be ridiculous to make the comparison.

Think about this from the point of view that women around the world admit they don’t bother to report their sexual assaults and rapes. Because they have no confidence that they will get justice AND not be vilified in the process.

What % of females actively reporting their attacks vs current trend of not bothering to report would decimate that 369 figure?

And that number cannot be accurately depicted in this point either;

”About half of all violent victimizations were not reported to police. Transgender people were as likely as cisgender people to report violence to police.”

Sure this 'maybe'. However, I believe the huge number of women telling us they don’t report.

This article is misrepresenting the reality.

I also bring to attention this as it is relevant to the claim:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

Including! Notice it says ‘including’!

Not ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.”

What was NOT included was a handy breakdown of what constituted the crimes against trans people were. What was the bar for a hate crime being committed for instance? Misogyny? Does that fit the definition that holds for transphobic hate crimes?

It did include 'property victimisations' for instance. I believe that this victimisation covers a wide range of things.

And based on 369 people, I am not going to delve into that national dataset to look for it. I don’t have the will. Maybe if you wish to prove your point, you could link to that data with the breakdown of the actual crimes reported for those 369 people.

“One in four transgender women who were victimized thought the incident was a hate crime compared to less than one in ten cisgender women.”

How many females being taught how to accurately assess the motivation against them as to whether it constituted a hate crime, or indeed using the very same frames of reference as trans people do but based on sexism, and then reanswering that same survey would again make that point meaningless? Is misogyny a ‘hate crime’ for instance?

Do people understand the significance of what centuries of oppression of females has done on being able to accurately assess the motivation of crimes against our sex?

I am beginning to. The trans lobby groups are informing my learnings. Because of what they classify as ‘transphobic hate crimes’ when I look at what I have experienced as a female… wow! I sure have overlooked a huge amount of what I just waved away as crap from males.

And that the group who are trans could include many of those reporting abuse that includes misgendering and perceived micro-aggressions. Gosh, imagine if women reported all the hateful things said and done to them on a daily basis.
Crimes that cause harm and pain to anyone should be fully investigated and justice served.

Either way, this one survey is being misquoted and misused by people such as Helen Webberly, and quoted in media (even the Metro). Every time someone sees this press release linked, we need to challenge it.

Thank you those London figures. It’s appalling there’s still no central database to collate the assaults going on in the 190 days pupils are in school, and valuable data like exact location. The BBC investigation (2015-16) and Ofsted (2021) also said as much and said reported figures are very much lower than true figures. People have to rely on FOIs.

Now please provide even one single verified case of a trans identifying man being harmed whilst using men's toilets in the UK.

And even if he can find such a case, why isn't he lecturing men to address their bad behaviour? No, no, instread he's wanging on at women for them to fix problems they didnt create. 🙄

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/143/6/e20182902/76816/School-Restroom-and-Locker-Room-Restrictions-and?redirectedFrom=fulltext?autologincheck=redirected

Well, we can debate that after he's found an example of it happening.

Until then, there's nothing to debate.

As do most women.

Yet the men insisting on access to the undressed bodies of girls and women make such a fuss about being asked to respect women's boundaries. On and on rhey go - wailing and flailing, producing reams of bullshit, pompous pronouncements, sneering and seething - all because society has finally said NO.

Failing to hear women saying no is the epitome of misogynistic male behaviour. Shame we can't catapult them all back to the Victorian era where their male supremacist beliefs and attitudes belong.

Not UK

C'mon. Just one 😂

This article is 5 years old, we’re all a bit more clued up now and have realised that some transgender people think being a victim of crime includes ‘misgendering’, calling a man a man, and refusing to accept that people can change sex.

1. Not relevant to the UK.
2. Based on one data set from 2017.
3. Literally, no control group. Only a small group of trans identifying teenagers were involved in the study.
4. And even then, no conclusive results.

Because it’s SO much easier to scold women.

Obviously

Do you know where the UK is? Because it isn’t in America.

Did you just google this again?

The numbers are very concerning. However, where does this say that this group is being harmed more than any other group within the school attendees? Because there is several issues with this link. It was another self selecting survey not reported complaints. There is no comparison data.

Please point that bit out where this link compares data to the general school population AND compared to other at risk groups.

By the way, with those very high % of incidents, it is highly likely that girls are being harmed frequently. Yet, you don't seem to even understand that allowing male people into the female student toilets will simply continue the harm to those female students.

Translucent?! What’s next, that bastion of journalistic integrity that is Pink ‘News’?

@Howseitgoin surely if mskes either a trans identity feel unsafe in male spaces, you should be taking this up with men. What do you want women to do about it?