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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women’s privacy and dignity

1000 replies

Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks · 07/09/2025 13:43

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 10/09/2025 08:58

Some people really can’t deal with ‘No’ innit?

these are people to swerve. Where they make themselves unavailable the law has to get involved

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 10/09/2025 08:59

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2025 08:56

What a surprise the OP who thinks women seeing others women naked in the female changing rooms are vouyers.

There's a reason why this isn't just let to slide on the feminist section of Mumsnet. Cos it's what MRA do.

Angry men and scolders.

im always amused they think that we don't see through their nonsense the moment they post with their so very male view of how women think & behave

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2025 08:59

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2025 08:26

Anyway, whether certain posters and the OP respect it or not, the majority of women consider it a violation of their privacy and dignity to use spaces where they are undressed or otherwise vulnerable with men. This obviously includes “trans women” because “trans women” are simply a group of men who claim that they “identify as” women. They share no common features apart from that.

@Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks do you understand this? It isn’t actually about you.

ThatBlackCat · 10/09/2025 09:00

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 08:54

All I have to do have to prove the point is show they are in danger in public. And the police dat confirms it. This isn't rocket science.

What's astonishingly bizarre is this dogged denial of the obvious. It doesn't take a scholar to comprehend they trigger people. I mean look at this thread. You'd think there was a mass trans invasion when the reality is their minuscule population means people rarely come across them & yet you would think they were the number one existential threat. But according to those who fear them the most no one could be bother to lift a finger…

Full blown derangement syndrome is an understatement.

No, you provided zero evidence they are in danger in public.

Women, are in danger in public. Women are killed at the rate of 3 per week.

There has been actual accounts of transwomen raping and attacking women in toilets. So we have actual precedent, you, have none.

Helleofabore · 10/09/2025 09:00

Just showing that a group of male people experience hate crimes which may include physical violence is actually irrelevant to their accessing female single sex spaces.

It is an argument that they might require action to reduce these crimes against them.

It is not an argument that they should be accessing female single sex spaces when they are male people.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2025 09:01

Every angry shouty post is just another demonstration of why we need to say no.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/09/2025 09:01

Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks · 10/09/2025 08:47

You’ve summed it up perfectly. It’s sad, because on other areas of MN people are able to have interesting, genuine discussions on all sorts of topics, without the same group of users coming in every time to bully and hector and repeat the same catch phrases over and over

I respectfully disagree.

This forum is one of the only places on the internet where respectful discussion and debate have been allowed. Where women have not simply been silenced and banned for expressing the view that male people are not and cannot ever be women.

If you personally are equally bothered by the presence of naked women and naked men, that's fine, that's how you feel.

But it's not how other women feel.

Ultimately, people like @Howseitgoin can not name even one thing that makes trans women more like women than like men. They do not meet any objective criteria for inclusion in women's spaces, and there is actually no evidence whatsoever that they are unsafe in men's spaces.

Why is this important?

Because it means that all arguments for their inclusion in women's spaces ultimately come down to "because they want to be in women's spaces".

And I have yet to hear a coherent reason why their wish to be in women's spaces should trump women's wish for them not to be there.

They are not women. They are male. Their exclusion from women's spaces should be the default. Unless there is a very good reason why they should be the exception to the rule that literally everyone else accepts and complies with, there doesn't even need to be a debate. And nobody has come up with a good reason.

Women are entitled to say "no", and men must respect that.

ArabellaSaurus · 10/09/2025 09:03

Helleofabore · 10/09/2025 09:00

Just showing that a group of male people experience hate crimes which may include physical violence is actually irrelevant to their accessing female single sex spaces.

It is an argument that they might require action to reduce these crimes against them.

It is not an argument that they should be accessing female single sex spaces when they are male people.

Absolutely.

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks · 10/09/2025 08:47

You’ve summed it up perfectly. It’s sad, because on other areas of MN people are able to have interesting, genuine discussions on all sorts of topics, without the same group of users coming in every time to bully and hector and repeat the same catch phrases over and over

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2025 09:04

Helleofabore · 10/09/2025 09:00

Just showing that a group of male people experience hate crimes which may include physical violence is actually irrelevant to their accessing female single sex spaces.

It is an argument that they might require action to reduce these crimes against them.

It is not an argument that they should be accessing female single sex spaces when they are male people.

This. I think some posters think they’re on Reddit where you can just state silly non sequiturs based on dubious facts that you’ve googled as killer arguments and people who agree with your opinion will downvote the unpopular opinions to oblivion. We don’t do that here, and in reality their opinions are the unpopular ones outside of their echo chamber online spaces.

GailBlancheViola · 10/09/2025 09:05

Quite Helleofabore. It matters not how many men who cliam a woman identity there are, women's toilets, changing rooms, spaces, services and sports are not theirs to access. If men (and boys) claiming to be women (or girls) do not want to access the spaces and services for their sex then that is their problem to solve without infrininging on women and girls right to have these spaces and services single sex female only.

TheKeatingFive · 10/09/2025 09:05

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

Gawd, just when I thought you couldn't sink any lower.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/09/2025 09:05

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 08:54

All I have to do have to prove the point is show they are in danger in public. And the police dat confirms it. This isn't rocket science.

What's astonishingly bizarre is this dogged denial of the obvious. It doesn't take a scholar to comprehend they trigger people. I mean look at this thread. You'd think there was a mass trans invasion when the reality is their minuscule population means people rarely come across them & yet you would think they were the number one existential threat. But according to those who fear them the most no one could be bother to lift a finger…

Full blown derangement syndrome is an understatement.

All you have to do to prove that they are in danger using men's toilets is to show one example of a trans woman being harmed in men's toilets.

This is what we have done to prove that women and girls are in danger from trans women in women's toilets.

So strange that you are unable to do so.

ThatBlackCat · 10/09/2025 09:06

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

Yeah, rape survivors like me have an "irrational" fear of men. Our fear of men is very rational, and with very real rational justification, there is nothing 'bigoted' about wanting to keep male predators out of our spaces. That post, right there, proves you are a male.

And only those who have nefarious reasons to either groom children or to erase womens boundaries call safeguarding 'weaponised' or 'bigoted'. Anyone who wants to erase safeguarding is a predator or has predatorial reasons. Full stop. One or the other.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2025 09:07

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

Well you do read a lot of nonsense.

Men who say there's too much safeguarding of children... 👀

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/09/2025 09:07

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

Why is it astounding that it's on a mums forum?

Mums know better than any other group that humans can't change sex, and they prioritise their children's safety and welfare above all else.

Mums are the last group of people who would fall for your nonsense and you hate that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2025 09:09

Another round of “why are a group of “mums” (ie women) speaking in a way that men disagree with! Women: Know Your Limits!”

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/09/2025 09:10

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

There are some people who insist that safeguarding is right wing bigotry. But that's normally the last resort of predators.

Of course those insisting that women have no right to boundaries, that women and girls must be compelled to undress in front of random men will find Mumsnet a hostile place. Most of us are mothers, most of us have experience of sexually inappropriate behaviour from men. When men try to push their demands for access to women and girls when undressing, of course they'll get pushback. You shouldn't be surprised at that.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/09/2025 09:13

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 07:45

Yeah? Evidence?

How about the disabled woman who was arrested in Cardiff over feminist stickers and detained all day without her medication whilst the police searched her home and removed feminist books from her bookshelves?

All because some blue haired pronoun wanker made a hoax call to the police.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/09/2025 09:13

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2025 09:09

Another round of “why are a group of “mums” (ie women) speaking in a way that men disagree with! Women: Know Your Limits!”

It really is a mystery.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2025 09:14

Someone's mum didn't check their browsing history and didn't stop them going on incel forums.

Some one is angry and jealous of mothers, mothering because they know they are different to men.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2025 09:15

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/09/2025 09:13

How about the disabled woman who was arrested in Cardiff over feminist stickers and detained all day without her medication whilst the police searched her home and removed feminist books from her bookshelves?

All because some blue haired pronoun wanker made a hoax call to the police.

Edited

That was probably a made up conspiracy theory.

Just like all the stuff that's come out since last Wednesday.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2025 09:18

Thoughts and prayers for the brolly.

Helleofabore · 10/09/2025 09:19

Howseitgoin · 10/09/2025 09:03

Yeah, I been on so many different & sometimes hostile forums & Iv'e never encountered such mob vitriol & denial.

And astounding that it's on a mum's forum. But I suspect many of these commenters don't have children & just have an irrational fear &/or hatred of men they are channeling against trans women under the guise of 'safe guarding'. 'It's the last straw…I suppose.

I was reading in a study that 'safe guarding' has long been weaponised for bigoted purposes.

And swivel.

Now safeguarding discussions are weaponised by bigots.

Amazing, isn’t it ? The swivelling needed to remove all legitimacy of discussion just so you can emotionally manipulate female people into conceding that some male people should have access to female single sex provisions.

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