teenage girls and middle-aged men

[onlytherain]

I have read a few times here and elsewhere that the two groups with the highest rates of being trans or highest increase in transitioning are teenage girls and middle-aged men. I can only find data for teenage girls. Could someone please point me to data supporting the claim that middle-aged men are a group with high transitioning rates?

Comprehension fail…

Bla

prove your theory.

How can you group female and male people using personality?

Your sample size is 100 persons
50 female
50 male

What traits are you going to use to break down the 100 persons it 2 groups?

Split the group by or your social usage is a choclate teapot.

No they don't. You don't seem to understand the graphs in the paper you linked to.

Point to where the numbers between older people of different sex vary hugely in the research then…

No. The point about single sex spaces is to separate people with male bodies from people with female bodies. For privacy and dignity as well as safety for females.

If you are making a claim it is up to you to show others where the data is saying what you think it is.

It was figure 1 in the paper you linked to when you first made that assertion. In older age groups it was an 80/20 male/female split.

He doesn't understand what's in the papers he's linked to. Probably hasn't even read them but someone who claims to has told him what's in them.

False. Not sure if you can't read graphs or are just a bad faith poster.

Graph 1 & 2 are very similar for both countries.

Its an approximate 30 to 70% male to female assigned at birth for the 10 to 19 age group

Its approx 50 50% split for the age groups 20 to 39

The rates aren't even after 40 where there are more males assigned at birth than females that could easily be attributed to cultural differences.

And let's not forget, the claim was there were no older women which is false.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2025.2503221

It's important to note that these are referrals to clinics. And as the Cass report shows not all referrals get to the next stage of medicalisation & in the case of Tavistock that was only 20 percent of people & that’s without adequate holistic availability.

Those graphs this person is referring to, are showing a disproportionate number of males to females in all but the 15-19 year old age group. In the Amsterdam data the age group 20-29 it shows still more male people but only slightly. I wonder if the trend line the team added makes it harder with the line spacing they chose and not having a 50% line. . I think those trend lines lack visual precision due to the width of the bars too.

However it is clear that male referrals are greater even in 20-29 years. I estimate 55% male in Melbourne and 52.5-53.5% male in Amsterdam but I am looking on a phone. The gap is about 60% male in Melbourne and 65% in Amsterdam in the age group 30-39.

There is no way that the charts from 20 -39 years show an “even split.”

The hypothesised reasons for these figures are just that. Hypothesised. The lack of interest by the researchers and this poster as to why female girls are in such high numbers is very telling. No where in that paper can I see explored in detail is the fear of being female in a world where sexual objectification is so prevalent or trauma associated with sexual abuse. This paper is not balanced and it doesn’t seem to be patient led. It is not exploring the background reasons for referral . It is posing a limited number of highly selective reasons for seeking transition and fhose reasons seem politically motivated.

That this has been posted as being a good source of information on why people refer to clinics at particular age groups is remarkable.

No. They don’t show ‘similar trends’. They show a predominantly higher male proportion.

You don’t seem to be able to view trend lines with the view to judging proportions. Or is the mere presence of older female people in the referrals (which you correctly point out are not transition figures) your idea of ‘similar’? So 20% female referral rates are ‘similar’ to 80%?

The prevalence of male violence is based on crime statistics and not on self reported, incentive rewarded surveys on self perception.

Your study that you have posted is not comparable at all to crime statistics used for safeguarding risk analysis.

As I recall the concern was an 'explosion' of younger females being females under 20. So 'older' females starts from 20 where as I said there was an APPROXIMATE even split until 40 of older females with older males.

Where things get "predominant" is the much older crowd which could easily be explained by confounding factors like cultural mores.

As to the researchers concern, they make mention in the paper the scope of research was limited to numbers. The idea of an obligation of research why being on them is silly & would be inconsistent with much research. One would imagine that those who purport to be so concerned might fund their own research instead of funding scare campaigns.

Well, look at that dishonest sleight of hand.

In my posts, I referred to female children and young adults. Have you assumed and not clarified with anyone as to which age group they refer to?

I think from past discussion with the other posters on this thread (ie not you) that no one here would have limited their discussion to the under 20 years old cohort. They may have mentioned that group as an example but we know very well that the issues continue into the 20s for female people.

Maybe ask people which age range they are referring to in their discussion rather than assuming.

And no, there is no ‘APPROXIMATE’ ‘even split’ in the age group you refer to unless you are considering a very wide % range in being your definition of ‘similar.’

You’re barrel scraping here.

“One would imagine that those who purport to be so concerned might fund their own research instead of funding scare campaigns.”

If I remember correctly, the adult services in the UK are going to be reviewed.

How interesting you mention this though. Considering Dr Cass asked for figures and other information from the adult gender clinics. There was a public campaign from trans supportive groups to have the majority of patients of these services refuse to allow Dr Cass’ team access to the information she sought.

It could be said that a group of people don’t wish to have their treatments evaluated independently. Why would that be?

All the pedantry in the world won't distract from the fact that the numbers are very close in the 20 to 40 range which makes sense given someone with half a brain cell can recognise its significantly socially less hostile to come out as a trans man in the school years. I mean this 'feminist' forum is hugely dedicated to trans woman only phobia. Trans men are off the hook being 'without agency' you see. We actual feminists have heard that misogynistic song before…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivialobjections

I think others can see for themselves. While a difference of 5% may be considered close, I don’t consider a difference of 10-30% as being close.

From the research:

"Between 2017 and 2019, 1903 Australian patients were referred to RCHGS & MHGC whom 45% (n = 857) were individuals assigned male at birth aged 3 to 77 years and 55% (n=1046) were individuals assigned female at birth aged 3 to 72 years.

Between 2016 and 2018, 2044 patients from the Netherlands were referred to the CEGD of whom 45% (n = 925) were individuals assigned male at birth aged 3 to77 years and 55% (n = 1119) were individuals assigned female at birth aged 5 to 68 years."

Totals of approx 200 individuals 10% difference. Much ado…..

I wonder what is meant here by bullying? Girls not wanting to accept a TIM as one of their own?

Is it misogyny to be aware of the real differences experienced by men and women as they navigate their way through life?

Trans-identified women are women, and pose about the same level of threat to men and other women as women generally do.

Trans-identified men are men. Since they are not women, it isn't possible to be misogynistic towards them.

The rates aren't even after 40 where there are more males than females that could easily be attributed to Malaga Airport.

When we were discussing older age groups, and I mentioned over 50s at least once, it was clear I wasn't referring to those under 40.

And let's not forget, the claim was there were no older women which is false.

I don't think anyone said that. I certainly didn't. The claim was that the numbers of older women transitioning was much lower than the number of men. Which you've finally agreed is true.

No idea what point you're trying to make here.

The total numbers are skewed by the enormous number of teenage girls identifying as trans.

Obviously.

Numbers mean exactly nothing unless the researcher investigates why the data differs from the expected result.

Error is normally as a result of design flaw.

Error makes the result meaningless.

If the research should have produced a 50/50 and shows a much-less-than result in one sub-section of a data set and a much-more-than result in what should be the same type of sub-section the most likely reason for that wide variation is the underlying data collection method was wrong.

Until that likely error is ruled out the result is meaningless.

Why would the researcher choose to use data with a questionable data collection method when it provided "numbers" but no information?

What @MrsOvertonsWindow said.