AnSolas · 07/09/2025 09:10

The census question was a voluntary question asked of those aged 16 years and over.

Overall, 45.7 million (94.0% of the population aged 16 years and over) answered

In total,
45,400,000 (93.5%) answered “Yes”
2,900,000 (6.0%) did not answer
262,000 (0.5%) answered “No”

Of the total of 262,000 people (0.5%) :
118,000 (0.24%) did not define themselves
48,000 (0.10%) ID as a TIF
48,000 (0.10%) ID as a TIM
30,000 (0.06%) UD as non-binary
18,000 (0.04%) ID in a different GI

And this data collector added explained why the data may not be reliable due to limitations created by the collection method design flaw.

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 09:15

Howseitgoin · 07/09/2025 04:00

All the pedantry in the world won't distract from the fact that the numbers are very close in the 20 to 40 range which makes sense given someone with half a brain cell can recognise its significantly socially less hostile to come out as a trans man in the school years. I mean this 'feminist' forum is hugely dedicated to trans woman only phobia. Trans men are off the hook being 'without agency' you see. We actual feminists have heard that misogynistic song before…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivialobjections

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This post is a delight.

“pedantry” is now being used accused from the poster who cannot engage with points without posting links about why other people’s post should be discredited. The hypocrisy continues.

It is laughable that this poster thinks the label of feminism applies to them. They posted about how young women are ‘whoring” about. Plus they keep posting that someone’s behaviours are enough for a male person to be labelled as a female person

This disconnect is stark when you see it.

nutmeg7 · 07/09/2025 09:21

Howseitgoin · 07/09/2025 00:15

'Sex' is defined by distinguishing characteristics so yep it can.

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No, it really doesn’t.

Sex is a biological reproductive strategy developed by many life forms. It is physical.

Do you really not understand that while some personality and behavioural traits have a tendency to be more present in male or female people, your personality or behavioural traits do not dictate your sex.

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 09:30

Howseitgoin · 06/09/2025 09:11

Do you understand how definitions are made?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/how-does-a-word-get-into-the-dictionary

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What this poster has made very clear over the past week though is just how important language is to a group of male people who demand to be treated as if they are female.

We are told social usage of a word is crucial to establishing a claim to change the meaning of words. There is the very clear reason why society has to be clear that the words to describe female people uniquely remain only for female people.

Thanks Howsa for reminding all of us of the collective harm to female people in the continued use of female words to refer to male
people. This link is really helpful in being a wake up call for all those who still use wrong sex pronouns and refer to male people as woman/girl/female.

You did a great job yesterday in doing that and I should have said so at the time. Well done!

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 09:31

nutmeg7 · 07/09/2025 09:21

No, it really doesn’t.

Sex is a biological reproductive strategy developed by many life forms. It is physical.

Do you really not understand that while some personality and behavioural traits have a tendency to be more present in male or female people, your personality or behavioural traits do not dictate your sex.

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“Do you really not understand that while some personality and behavioural traits have a tendency to be more present in male or female people, your personality or behavioural traits do not dictate your sex.”

No. That is far too nuanced for this poster to understand considering what they believe is nuanced discussion points.

Shortshriftandlethal · 07/09/2025 09:37

Howseitgoin · 07/09/2025 00:13

The point already made repeatedly, is that personality traits are a sex distinguishable trait. A lot like when men are more likely to be violent hence the demand for private spaces. You do this yourself…

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We have single sex spaces and services based not on personality factors, but based on the reality of the sexed body and of female vulnerabilities in relation to it and its consequences. We don't permit men in such spaces beause these spaces and categories exist in order to offer a degree of dignity and protection to the female sex.

I'm not sure why you are going on about personality characteristics. Sex is about the body; its biological capacity and its function - and all that leads on from that.

Shortshriftandlethal · 07/09/2025 09:40

Howseitgoin · 07/09/2025 01:26

False. Not sure if you can't read graphs or are just a bad faith poster.

Graph 1 & 2 are very similar for both countries.

Its an approximate 30 to 70% male to female assigned at birth for the 10 to 19 age group

Its approx 50 50% split for the age groups 20 to 39

The rates aren't even after 40 where there are more males assigned at birth than females that could easily be attributed to cultural differences.

And let's not forget, the claim was there were no older women which is false.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2025.2503221

It's important to note that these are referrals to clinics. And as the Cass report shows not all referrals get to the next stage of medicalisation & in the case of Tavistock that was only 20 percent of people & that’s without adequate holistic availability.

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Nobody is 'assigned' anything at birth, apart from a name. Sex is determined at conception.

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 10:05

Anyone interested in Howseit’s view on nuance, here it is.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5400030-give-us-the-freedom-to-risk-rape?reply=146966119&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Page 13 | "Give Us The Freedom To Risk Rape" | Mumsnet

Famed feminist Camille Paglia's interesting views on women's freedoms: ^"Yes this is probably the most controversial area that I have written about.^...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5400030-give-us-the-freedom-to-risk-rape?reply=146966119

Datun · 07/09/2025 10:12

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 09:30

What this poster has made very clear over the past week though is just how important language is to a group of male people who demand to be treated as if they are female.

We are told social usage of a word is crucial to establishing a claim to change the meaning of words. There is the very clear reason why society has to be clear that the words to describe female people uniquely remain only for female people.

Thanks Howsa for reminding all of us of the collective harm to female people in the continued use of female words to refer to male
people. This link is really helpful in being a wake up call for all those who still use wrong sex pronouns and refer to male people as woman/girl/female.

You did a great job yesterday in doing that and I should have said so at the time. Well done!

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I wouldn't mind, but even social usage doesn't work.

Neo vagina means not a vagina. Transwoman means not a woman.

Datun · 07/09/2025 10:21

OP, if you want to know why so many middle aged men transition, just look up the concept of autogynephilia (AGP). It's a cross dressing fetish.

It's a paraphilia that once everybody knew about, but unaccountably seems to have slid off the radar. But if you're wondering where all the transvestites have gone, It's because decades of relentless marketing has turned the concept into transgenderism.

And, crucially, it's a male paraphilia (I think all paraphilias largely are).

See ''trans widows' for, quite frankly, never-ending examples. There are thousands and thousands of posts on this very site from women who have been married to AGP men.

Transactivists, still fondly imagine that they can muddy the waters by pretending it doesn't exist. But it's a losing battle, since there are so many men who plaster their fetish from one end of the Internet to the other, quite openly.

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 10:36

Datun · 07/09/2025 10:12

I wouldn't mind, but even social usage doesn't work.

Neo vagina means not a vagina. Transwoman means not a woman.

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Yeah. This was pointed out but apparently, to this poster near enough is good enough. That someone calls the cavity inserted in a male person’s groin a ‘vagina’ is all that is needed apparently.

Apparently, it doesn’t have to be identical, or even anything like the body part for it to apply.

The whole thing is just more fuckwittery.

Arran2024 · 07/09/2025 10:40

So, have a look at this graph. Look at all the adolescent girls compared to the boys. The argument that girls trans later when they are more confident, less concerned by society's rules etc as in the Australian study, is not reflected here.

https://x.com/megawhelmed/status/1735072611233562693

SionnachRuadh · 07/09/2025 11:13

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 10:36

Yeah. This was pointed out but apparently, to this poster near enough is good enough. That someone calls the cavity inserted in a male person’s groin a ‘vagina’ is all that is needed apparently.

Apparently, it doesn’t have to be identical, or even anything like the body part for it to apply.

The whole thing is just more fuckwittery.

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Well I'm not saying this poster is making up their biography, I'm just saying it's exactly the sort of argument we've come to expect from people who think it's really important to change the definition of words so that they won't appear to be fetishists.

5128gap · 07/09/2025 11:47

Howseitgoin · 04/09/2025 22:31

This might help clarify.

"Trans people seek gender care at different stages of their lives
Our recently published study examined gender clinic referrals across the entire lifespan._
We used data from publicly funded gender clinics in Melbourne and Amsterdam across a three-year period between 2016 and 2019. The Amsterdam and Melbourne services received 2,044 and 1,903 referrals respectively.
We found remarkably similar results in both countries. The majority of adolescent referrals (around 70%) were for trans boys and non-binary people assigned female at birth. However, among adults, this observation was flipped, with the majority of adult referrals being for individuals assigned male at birth.
Specifically, 55% of referrals of those aged in their 20s were for individuals assigned male at birth. This grew every subsequent decade, reaching around 80% for those in their 50s and beyond.
What do these findings mean?
Previous surveys from Sweden, Belgium and the United States indicate the proportion of people assigned male and female at birth who are transgender is roughly equal.
Assuming these two groups share a similar desire to access gender clinics, you would expect the number of referrals to be around the same over the course of a lifetime.
Our new findings are consistent with this expectation but the likelihood of referral to gender clinics seems to be influenced by both the sex a person was assigned at birth, as well as their age. While those assigned female at birth are more likely seek referral as adolescents, those assigned male “catch up” in later years.
So rather than an over-representation of those assigned female at birth, adolescent referral patterns most likely reflect an under-representation of assigned males."

Why is this happening?
Trans misogyny is a unique type of discrimination trans girls and women face. It combines transphobia, the hatred for and discrimination against trans people, with misogyny, the prejudice and contempt towards women.
The impact of trans misogyny is far-reaching. During adolescence, trans girls experience higher rates of bullying and victimisation than trans boys and cisgender peers.
During adulthood, trans women remain at high risk of abuse and violence. They are also more likely to encounter housing discrimination, homelessness, unemployment and poverty than the general population.
Faced with such daunting prospects, it seems much harder for trans girls to reveal their gender identity as adolescents at an already uncertain time of their lives.
But as trans girls progress into adulthood, we suspect an intrinsic desire to express their gendered sense of self eventually tips the balance in favour of “coming out”. As a result, we see more trans women seeking gender care in their 20s, 30s and beyond.

https://theconversation.com/critics-claim-gender-clinics-are-seeing-an-excess-of-trans-boys-but-new-data-suggest-otherwise-257817#:~:text=Trans%20people%20seek%20gender%20care,in%20their%2050s%20and%20beyond.

Edited

A male who identifies as a female does not face misogyny. If he is hated for not conforming to male stereotypes, he is experiencing toxic masculinity, not misogyny. Misogyny may be at the root of the disaproval of a man who wishes to assume womanhood, because there may be a failure to understand why he would wish to be 'less than' the man he is. But this means he is hated for his choices not for his sex. Misogyny is not something women can swerve by keeping our femaleness on the back burner until we find a kinder more accepting society, or grow old and powerful enough for it to no longer harm us.

TheCatsTongue · 07/09/2025 13:40

When you listen to male detransitioners (on podcasts etc) it appears to be that the spell is broken once they find out about AGP.

I do think a lot of the activists want to keep it quiet because they don't want men to realise that is what they have and instead were "born in the wrong body".

Even stuff like "euphoria boner" is brushed over by activists as not being related to sexual arousal.

The gender identity services used to pick up on fetishes quite a lot and then activists have prevented them from doing so.

If adults want this extreme body modification surgery (paid privately) then that is up to them, but they don't have informed consent if they are not fully informed about what is causing their feelings.

BundleBoogie · 07/09/2025 15:41

Arran2024 · 07/09/2025 10:40

So, have a look at this graph. Look at all the adolescent girls compared to the boys. The argument that girls trans later when they are more confident, less concerned by society's rules etc as in the Australian study, is not reflected here.

https://x.com/megawhelmed/status/1735072611233562693

Yes, and as this is all supposed to be innate and stable for the individual, would we not expect to see a similar proportion of older female transitioners compared to males? To reflect the adolescent proportions of approximately 550 males to 1700 female

A ratio of 550: 1700 which according to AI breaks down to 11:34, so for every 11 older male transitioners we should see 34 older female transitioners unless there are compelling factors that would change this but we are clearly not seeing this ratio.

Lots of vague and creative theories have been put forward by PPs on this thread but nothing has stuck as a sensible explanation yet.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 07/09/2025 23:33

Howseitgoin · 06/09/2025 09:17

As already shown, 'sex' is about distinctions that aren't limited to reproductive differences.

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Really? So how do we determine sex in other species? Cats? Dogs? Horses? Elephants? Otters? And so on.

Why, I do believe it's determined by reproductive function. If an elephant has a penis and shoots sperm, it is a MALE elephant. No one argues with this, least of all the elephants.

Human sex is also determined in this way. Because nothing else makes sense. A human with a penis is a male human - yes even if he chops it off.

Howseitgoin · 07/09/2025 23:52

Helleofabore · 07/09/2025 09:30

What this poster has made very clear over the past week though is just how important language is to a group of male people who demand to be treated as if they are female.

We are told social usage of a word is crucial to establishing a claim to change the meaning of words. There is the very clear reason why society has to be clear that the words to describe female people uniquely remain only for female people.

Thanks Howsa for reminding all of us of the collective harm to female people in the continued use of female words to refer to male
people. This link is really helpful in being a wake up call for all those who still use wrong sex pronouns and refer to male people as woman/girl/female.

You did a great job yesterday in doing that and I should have said so at the time. Well done!

Show quote history

This quote sums up much of the attitude of the authoritarian far right these days which is to say 'principals (in this case word construction) don't matter if they are inconvenient' with a side of '& they are conspiratorially exploited to usher in ideology'.

As shown, word usage isn't a conspiracy but a socially powered phenomenon that includes both the usage of women & men. The idea this is just a male plot is frankly as bizarre as it it is illogical.

Maybe this poster thinks she can make this obvious inconsistency go away with posting yet another link to my post about Camille Paglia? I'm sure she will try…😂

Howseitgoin · 08/09/2025 00:04

MistyGreenAndBlue · 07/09/2025 23:33

Really? So how do we determine sex in other species? Cats? Dogs? Horses? Elephants? Otters? And so on.

Why, I do believe it's determined by reproductive function. If an elephant has a penis and shoots sperm, it is a MALE elephant. No one argues with this, least of all the elephants.

Human sex is also determined in this way. Because nothing else makes sense. A human with a penis is a male human - yes even if he chops it off.

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Um, the animal kingdom doesn't have the same brain functions as humans. There's this thing called 'apples & oranges'….

OldCrone · 08/09/2025 00:06

It doesn't matter how much you try to alter the meaning of words @Howseitgoin. Men still can't be women, no matter how much they think they want to.

OldCrone · 08/09/2025 00:09

Howseitgoin · 08/09/2025 00:04

Um, the animal kingdom doesn't have the same brain functions as humans. There's this thing called 'apples & oranges'….

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Humans are part of the animal kingdom.

Apples and oranges aren't.

OldCrone · 08/09/2025 00:12

Howseitgoin · 08/09/2025 00:04

Um, the animal kingdom doesn't have the same brain functions as humans. There's this thing called 'apples & oranges'….

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What does brain function have to do with penises?

Is your brain located in your penis or something?

MistyGreenAndBlue · 08/09/2025 00:29

Howseitgoin · 08/09/2025 00:04

Um, the animal kingdom doesn't have the same brain functions as humans. There's this thing called 'apples & oranges'….

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I think you have missed my point. Probably deliberately.

I expected nothing less.

Myalternate · 08/09/2025 00:42

OldCrone · 08/09/2025 00:12

What does brain function have to do with penises?

Is your brain located in your penis or something?

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😂

onlytherain · 2025-09-04T21:18:18+00:00

I have read a few times here and elsewhere that the two groups with the highest rates of being trans or highest increase in transitioning are teenage girls and middle-aged men. I can only find data for teenage girls. Could someone please point me to data supporting the claim that middle-aged men are a group with high transitioning rates?

Rednorth · 08/09/2025 00:53

But what if the apple identifies as an orange??