I'm confused what gender critical people want. Could someone clarify?

[Christinapple]

They want any LGBT person or supporter who makes a threat of violence arrested? Correct? For an example there was Sarah Jane Barker who made a "if you see a TERF, punch 'em in the face!" comment. There was a Glasgow protest where someone held up a cardboard sign with a guillotine crudely drawn with a crayon and "decapacitate TERFs" or something scrawled. These happened years ago and to this day the GC community still talk about and refer to them and say they should have been arrested/charged/convicted.

For another example a trans person a while back jokingly posted something like "let's give KJK a NZ welcome" on twitter which then led to a lot of angry GC people from here making police reports and brigading them (someone posted a link on here and lots went over to be abusive directly to her).

And then Graham Linehan threatens to/incites others to punch trans people in their genitalia (not his first time btw, he has a long track record of threatening and inciting abuse and violence towards LGBT people and their supporters), and yet these same GC people flock to twitter to say that it's "free speech" and "people shouldn't be arrested for online communications".

So what is it to be? If you want LGBT people arrested and charged for threats then GL would need charged too.

If you want GL to have a "legal pass" to make threats then that means it should be the same for all including LGBT people and allies.

Whatever the law is it needs to apply to everyone equally. You can't have one rule for GCs and another rule for LGBT people and allies.

Aw yes lets compare GL and SJP shall we? GL has said and wrote many things that upset trans people while trying to protect women and children's safety and rights. Sometimes this goes too far.

SJP kidnapped and tortured his step mother's brother in the back of a van for 24 hours. While in prison he attempted to garotte another inmate. He later absconded from prison and went on the run for 100 days.

Only one of these two is an extremely vile, dangerous man. Can you guess which one it is yet?

I have no problem with the police speaking to GL if he takes things too far - 5 armed police though was stupidly ridiculous. I also though expect TRA's to be spoken to and banners removed.

SJP however should rot in jail forever.

I want everyone to accept the reality of why we have single sex provision and work with it for everyone's benefit.

Thats it really.

The responses you refer to are not because the poster claims to be a TW.

It's because the poster constantly starts threads and asks questions, then fails to engage with most of the replies.

They also persistently derail threads.

Its exhausting, frustrating and could come across as a deliberate tactic to infiltrate and wreck a predominately female online space.

Its got nothing to do with their gender identity, and everything to do with their behaviour.

Which incidentally is pretty much what the thread is about. Most people with gender critical views don't want any trans people locked up for minor transgressions of the law. We do want TIMs who threaten women to face the same punishments as anyone else. We want laws to be applied equally and appropriately.

Edit:typos

Absolutely right. I believe the bolting on of the irrelevant 'T' to LGB has done untold damage to lesbians and gays like me, by implying that we are one community of issues and interests, and we are not. Same sex attraction, and identifying as the opposite sex, are entirely different things.

The damage to the lesbian and gay community is especially noticeable in Ireland, where the great success of the Marriage Equality referendum in 2015, showing that 60%+ of the population were happy to come out and vote that they regarded lesbians and gays as full citizens, was immediately hijacked by the trans juggernaut.

The result was the waving through of self-ID etc, as just a tidying-up of the 'gay' liberalisation process, and the TQAI++++++ taking centre stage in education, the media, legislation, etc.

LGB✂T!

Chris, pretending for a second you're asking in good faith...

Do you think a woman acting in self defence - because a man is in what should be a safe space for her - by hitting him in the balls, is violence in the same way as, say, men threatening to burn/decapitate/rape women for their hurty thoughts?

If a bloke in a dress built like a brick shithouse approached me in a loo and refused when asked to leave me alone, I’d be taking Graham’s advice.
Hope that’s clear.

"Their threats could often be subjectively mean, but I have never seen a death threat."

I'm sorry to nit pick, but what threats have GC women made towards trans identifying men?

The TRAs / MRAs say this happens all the time, but I've never actually seen any evidence of it.

Where they see "threats" I see women saying "trans identifying men were, are, and always will be men", "sex is binary and immutable", "gender stereotypes are harmful", "female's rights, privacy and dignity are lawful and necessary" and things of a similar nature.

I've seen people point out the obvious, and I've seen people making jokes out of frustration and a bid to hold on to some measure of sanity with humour... but no actual threats.

Everyone. Equally.

You're assuming Gender critical people are a hive mind again.

No, some of us believe that Linehams comments deserve an arrest, some don't. Just like there are people on the transgenderuk sub Reddit that believe he shouldn't have been arrested.

We're all different people, with different views.

Ugh, try again Cohen! 🙄

They have HE has admitted they are HE is a man. They have HE has a prolific posting history of misogynist views.

This ⬆️

But what I struggle with in order for there to be an arrest there has to be an objective crime committed. Where is the objective criteria written down that I can look at and I can identify whether or not someone’s words cross a criminal line. It shouldn’t be a judgement call. It either is or is not a crime.

As a gender critical person I have no interest in the LGB. They have my full support for their sexual orientation-based rights which are (surprise surprise) based on SEX (unchanging biological reality) and not the meaningless gender identity claim of a person who claims to be trans.

I want to see anyone who campaigns for TQ+ privilege - gender identity to be prioritized over sex - to be shamed as the homophobic and misogynistic bigots they are.

I want to see anyone who makes genuine credible threats or explicitly incites violence, to be prosecuted. "Decapitate TERFs" would be an example of something that deserves punishment.

Making jokes about punching someone who breaks the law and transgresses boundaries IN SELF DEFENCE AS THAT PERSON IS BREAKING THE LAW AND BOUNDARY TRANSGRESSING, is not incitement it is a reasonable proportionate suggestion.

I'm confused what gender critical people want

A variety of things, but they fall - very broadly - into two camps.

In one camp you have the beige cardie Nazis who labour under certain ideological delusions and want the rights of anyone they deem unworthy - especially trans, and even more specifically trans-women - eradicated.
These people, like all those who subscribe to far right ideologies, are rabid, disproportionately noisy, and morally bankrupt.

In the other camp, thankfully the majority of GC people I'd say, you have ordinary, rational, thoughtful people who have no issue with the rights of the trans community so long as those rights, specifically access to single-sex spaces, don't infringe on the (very reasonable) rights of women.

But don't make the mistake of automatically assumption that anger you receive from the second group must mean they are firmly part of the first group; it doesn't.
Most women are, frankly, pissed off by years of erosion of their rights and even more pissed off that some TRAs feel the rights of the trans community - a small percentage of the community - should trump the rights of women - at least half the community.

Make no mistake, those two groups I've outlined absolutely exist on the TRA side as well. It's part of the reason we're in the hideous mess we are as a society.

The problem that feminists will always have is that women are just not believed.

Chris has been on this site for a while and has never engaged in honest discussion. Chris uses strawman arguments, gotchas and threats to argue that men are women and that men should be in womens spaces because they say so. Chris does not duscuss, chris ridicules and threatens.

Rather than thinking that the women here have experience and may know something, you have automatically decided that the women are wrong. They are debating wrong, they jumping to conclusions, they arent listening to the MRA/TRA closely enough, women need to justify they opinion so that the MRS/TRA understand.

If you stepped back a little bit and wondered why the women here are speaking the way they are on the thread, maybe your natural reaction wouldnt be to critise the women with experience?

Arghhh! Huge typo!! I meant to say 'their TWEETS can often be subjectively mean!"
it's too late to edit it now! 🤦‍♀️

I didn't really pick up the joke about punching a 'woman' in the balls initially, but it should be remembered that this has all come about shortly after it was reported that the Queen was sexually assaulted on a train when she was younger, and she dealt with it by taking off her shoe and whacking the perpetrator in the bollocks with it.

Will Camilla be having her collar felt this week by the rozzers for this act of violence?

Yes, it's the equivalent of saying "I can't hear what you're saying" when you've simultaneously got your fingers in your ears.

Thank you, sorry again!

I had my own too-late-to-edit "fail" upthread too 😅

I think you may not have noticed the other 100 or so posts?

Seriously, why on earth post something like this in the middle of a thread which is predominantly thoughtful, discursive and courteous?

For you to just pick out the few posts that are ironic/satirical/insulting? Well, it "kind of puts paid to the "we're just wanting a discussion [Chris opens with], which is clearly a load of bullshit."

And I really didn't like quoting you there, precisely because I feel your own tone is also a bit emotional, aggressive and dismissive.

Come on - your post's the definition of irony.

thats the issue isn’t it. I got the joke straight away. He’s a comic writer. The way it was phrased, whilst I am sure has a serious undertone, was set up with a punchline. The thing about any sort of writing whether it is letters, texts emails etc is that the delivery is all in the reader not the person writing it. If you read it as if a comedian was saying it with the right pauses and last line you can imagine that it would get a chortle. Ricky gervais did a whole routine on ‘old fashioned women’ (ie biological ones) and covered a lot of jokes that many would find offensive

it just so happened that the Camilla thing was timed at the same time which does make it interesting! The difference I suppose was that she was under threat but just a trans women being in the women’s loos isn’t necessarily one even if perceived to be.

@DoinFineIThink my reference to Chris' whining is because Chris starts the same threads/makes the same posts over and over again and never actually takes on board any of the responses.

Equality.

If GC people are going to be visited at home for reeducation by the police or arrested for wrongthink, i want every single tran who has involved himself in threats of death, hanging, assault, and rape whether this be online or via placard to be treated in exactly the same way.

Laws should apply to everyone - including those TRA activists who have been inciting violence towards GC (ie those who believe in reality) for years. Causing them to lose their jobs etc

More faux naïvety from Chris.

Doesn't he have a job or a hobby of some sort, aside from plopping stupid questions with wide eyed pseudo sincerity on here to try and start a bunfight?

Chris doesn't care what women want. If he did, he'd leave us alone.

Awww my sweet summer child. Stick around the boards a bit. You’ll see why the OP gets that treatment. @Christinapple has no compunction in showing the hatred of women and sexism of any other TRA and is quite happy to scold us on a regular basis. It’s a fun game.