NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

I have been quietly following again. Thanks to all who have posted and explained.

If there was a coordinated effort to get statistics of what is happening in toilets and changing rooms in schools and out-of-home environments then I think people would take more action.

WRN found hospitals had shocking numbers but nobody had much detail about locations in their data.

No government bodies seem to be collecting the data and if they do it’s not coordinated or thorough enough.

This is absolutely short sighted by government as you need these details to reduce harm.

They were warned by the BBC (2015/6) www.bbc.com/news/education-36071502.amp
and again by Ofsted (2021) www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges
about the situation in schools. At an estimate there was at least one rape report inside a school premises each school day.

That’s why women and girls need single sex spaces. It’s so widespread Ofsted told schools to assume it’s happening even when they haven’t got people reporting it.

It really, really takes guts to report it because people will try and minimise it, your character will be assassinated and you may be deemed a trouble maker.

While you're here, could I ask a legally related question? I have always assumed that to be appointed a KC you would need a long history of skillful litigation, but I'm starting to wonder if it even requires basic competence. Is it more like a private members club, and just needs someone to be recommended and approved by the right people?

I did find earlier an indirect link to a letter which a group of medics sent to GMC raising concerns re DU and issues raised in the respondents' evidence. Can't now find it. Does anyone know what it was and can link please?

Nurse's behaviour 'doesn't deserve' Equality Act protection

The article headline on BBC is so alarming.

May as well throw open the prison doors to the women's estate and invite the Isla Brysons of the world to walk straight in.

Her hesitation indicates that she knows full well that DrU is a man and wanted to avoid the public humiliation of no good answer.

Either she supported her client’s testimony and looks like an idiot when she says he’s female or she admits reality that he’s a man but then contradicts her client.

If she was a genuine transbeliever I’d have more respect for her taking on these cases, but she’s not. If she was, she’d have clearly said DrU is a female.

https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/reporting-discrimination-in-prison/#:~:text=Under%20the%20Equality%20Act%202010,%2C%20sex%2C%20and%20sexual%20orientation.

I wonder what these people have to say about the idea that one can be deprived EA protection?

I wondered this and the comments about the wider panel. So is there a #bekinder amongst the panel? We will wait and see. In terms of women receiving justice in courts, it’s just as likely to go one way than the other.

I was thinking along the same lines.
Justice is only for the rich
or
Maybe JR needs to fund an extravagant Xmas holiday. ☀️☀️🎄🎄

...or by Sched 29, it is lawful under EA to do what employers must do under the 1992 workplace regs....

Anyone know what was meant here (there's no Schedule 29)? 22? 23?

https://substack.com/home/post/p-163567474 This?

That's what it used to be like, but nowadays there's a formal process that aims to be transparent and merit based.

There are details of the process here: Summary of Revised Process for QC Award for England and Wales

But very roughly, you have to put yourself forward and give details of a number of complex cases you've litigated. Assessments of the applicant's skill are given by judges, professional clients and counsel who they've been led by and/or appeared against.

Then there's a panel interview, and the panel makes its recommendations to the Lord Chancellor who makes her recommendations to the King.

There's no long service requirement any more, and it's all about your specific skills - the reason why they need all the professional assessments is that so many barristers work in niche specialisms.

And because it's a convoluted process that lasts for months, lots of very good barristers who don't care about having a KC after their name just don't bother applying.

A barrister has to apply to become a KC. They need to show significant experience (usually at least 10 years) and provide evidence of their experience in complex, high profile cases, along with supporting references. There are five competencies required (understanding and using law, written and oral advocacy, teamwork, understanding of diversity and cultural issues, and integrity). You have to provide evidence from assessors (who could be clients, judges or other barristers) to show that you have met these competencies. If you pass that stage, you then have to face an interview with an independent selection panel - usually 10 people including lay members (one of whom will chair the panel), a retired senior judge, senior barristers and senior solicitors. So no, I don't think it is like a private members club.

JR has never publicly stated her stand on trans issues, but all indications are that she is a true believer. My personal opinion is that this probably helps her get business from those on the TWAW side of the debate, but I don't think her beliefs do her any favours when it gets to court. Having said that, even if she isn't a true believer, she is required to make the best case she can for her clients. If that means she has to argue that black is white, that is what she must do to the best of her ability.

I’ve been imagining the judge in chambers muttering under his breath “buggerit millenium hand and shrimp” as Jars voice slowly drives him mad!

Exactly that, thank you.

If Translucent won't publish their intervention, does that make them opaque?

(Sorry... but I've changed all the pillowcases and cushion covers and thumped them to plump them up and I'm still furious with Jane Russell for saying that Sandie Peggie doesn't deserve protection. Next stop is breadmaking. Do any of you highly skilled cooks know if I can do vodoo with bread?)

👏👏👏

It really needs to all boil down to if any woman doesn’t want a man in their changing room then those creepy men are not allowed. Just one of us must want that for it to be so. I’m getting a vibe that there are a few of us. I must admit i feel physically sick at having a stupid trans identifying man standing their ‘shyly’ in their not needed bra. Let them go to fuck.

I hate the 'not worthy of protection' angle (who arbitrates who is worthy?) rights are supposed to be universal not something you have to earn.

Bumping this worthy cause if anyone wants to pay forward their thanks for the hard work of TT, and our marvelous #51 thread host @nauticant

For anyone looking to provide financial assistance to a group involved in this clash between women's rights and gender ideology, Tribunal Tweets would be a good cause. As far as I know the way to do that is to subscribe to their Substack, I don't think that one-off donations can be made. If I'm wrong on that, please correct me.
https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/

It was too tight and not quite the right shape. Good neckline and material but didn’t fit [focusing on the important aspects of the day].

Libby Brooks writes her third article about the case in the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/02/nhs-nurses-tribunal-over-trans-doctors-use-of-changing-room-hears-final-evidence

Hello from lurker of the year here. Many thanks to all of you for providing TTs, updates, live commentary including on the garb, summaries, analysis, information and lots of other things that have educated me at least on a lot of things.

Last request - could someone tell me (in plain English please 😊) what JR's response was to J's question (paraphrased) "what sex do you think Dr. Upton is?". Was her answer (that I tried to decipher from info above) clear and concise Male or Female as a response? No, OK I thought so. So how did she answer this black and white question, or did she just get away with a bullshit answer.

Actually I think it's a great headline. "Doesn't deserve" is in quotes, making it clear that they are quoting JR, and many people will see that and think WTF, everyone deserves Equality Act protection, it isn't dependent on people's behaviour.

That Guardian article was pretty balanced. I'm shook.

And the headline for Graham Linehan 's arrest said 'post over transgender issues' not transphobic posts. Wtf is going on over there?