NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

Or this: https://nitter.net/search?f=tweets&q=from%3Atribunaltweets

Yep.

She wasn't going to see him as a woman ever, either by undressing and not calling him out in the changing room, or by leaving it.

And her refusal to buy into his fantasy meant he had to take her down one way or another.

All NC’s submissions are here
https://substack.com/home/post/p-168447499

NC Speaking Note
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1yyWHcApQ0NffSikZsLeY-YMoP_WOKN_M/mobilebasic

Closing Submission (23 pages)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18yIqWcDQeSt-eUazRr3Z9LL69tGmL9YW/view

Final Submission (167 pages)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kzAYvbhcjaJbOCtY_Tp34NkhD-2e_2Zt/view

Linked above

I read that in the Nac Mac Feegle way 😂

Big jobs! Crivens!😂

It seems a weak Hail Mary given that the gross misconduct case was dropped.

Although I haven’t been following this closely and am trying to catch up all
sides of the fence.

Thinking about the motion to change the pleading after the hearing has finished I remembered that one of the grounds for refusing to add Searle as a Respondent was timing, complexity & re-exam, so refusing to allow the change could use similiar reasoning, & its hard to see JR getting leave to appeal over that. IANAL.

AI summary of that part of the grounds:
Risk of Procedural Delay
Adding a new respondent late in proceedings could have caused significant delay, requiring new pleadings, disclosures, and possibly re-examination of witnesses. The judge emphasized the need to avoid derailing the timetable, especially given the case’s complexity and public interest.

The second question was after a loooong pause! Two excellent and very pointed questions by Big Sond. I missed whether JR gave any sort of answer, so I'll go back now and see if anyone else knows.

Which was The Guardian's Book of the Day today, thereby risking conniption fits and temper tantrums from a high proportion of its staff. 😀

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/sep/02/the-hallmarked-man-by-robert-galbraith-review-a-terrific-tightly-plotted-romp

I think it was one of those "I'll have to get back to you on that" moments IIRC

Hopefully NC and the supporters will be off out for dinner and drinks to mark what should be the end of the tribunal appearances for the case?

Very bold statement. I don’t remember IB claiming to have considered the impact on females before saying Upton’s has the right to use the F CR. In fact her response was that he had the right so no indication that any thought was given to balancing rights.

Thanks so much!

I'm loving NC's section headings. "WHAT DR SEARLE DID NEXT" is on my book wish list for Christmas!

As I remember, What Katy Did Next was way shitter than What Katy Did, and Searle is starting from a very low point....

I've been busy for the last couple of days and haven't been able to keep up with what's been happening, either in court or on these threads, although I have read NC's submissions. However, at the end of the last thread I was being asked a question about JR's argument re the regulations.

The 1992 regulations requiring single sex changing rooms were brought in to implement an EU directive. As I understand it, JR is trying to argue that this means that, notwithstanding Brexit, they must be interpreted following EU law and the judgements of the EU courts (NOT the ECHR - that is not an EU court), and that case law in the EU courts is that trans identifying males can use female changing rooms.

My view is that this argument fails on both counts. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act abolished the supremacy of EU law (and hence the supremacy of the EU courts) and made it clear that any retained EU legislation must be interpreted in a way that is compatible with UK legislation. What the EU courts think about it is irrelevant. Also, having investigated a little further, I have not found any judgements of the EU courts that support JR's contention that trans identifying males can use female changing rooms. I haven't seen or heard JR's submissions, so it may be that she has identified something I have missed, but I agree with NC that the references JR quoted in her skeleton argument do not prove her point.

I think that answers the question I was being asked. If not, feel free to tag me.

Thank your for the links and suggestions, @nauticant and @MyrtleLion

I have bookmarked and will look when DM next stops talking. I am supposed to look at her at all times, so only get to sneak the odd peak when she goes to the bathroom or looks in her capacious handbag can take a while.

Crikey...what a day!

I got a lovely very flattering dress of roman

There was a question upthread about JR's skeleton, submissions and speaking note.

Tribunal Tweets has written twice to Rs solicitors asking for copies, in the interest of transparency and open justice. Likewise we requested a copy of the TransLucent intervention (we have FWS and NAG on our Substack).
I leave it to the readers to decide why it was not made available.

DW cutting up my pear. I am preparing for a tantrum.

So her argument is that rights only have to be balanced at moments of maximum vulnerability?

How does that relate to the GRA's exceptions for hereditary titles and sport?

Is she claiming that the GRA is wrong?

If the aim is to appeal to the ECtHR on this basis (even if this isn't the case that they use), I don't see how it's possible to thread a path between claiming that convention rights have been breeched, and completely undermining the GRA to the extent that the whole thing has to be relitigated.

I wrote down what I believe were his exact words to JR:

"What do you say is the sex of the 2nd respondent?"

There was a long pause, and then the Judge said "Do you want to take instructions?"

... which had me laughing out loud.

In more normal circumstances the claimant would be unable to continue because of costs. That’s why it is so disgusting. It happens a lot when big organisations are up against individuals or small companies. Hopefully that is not an issue here. But it is truly disgusting behaviour.

That's exactly as I have it. And she hesitated so long he asked her twice if she wanted to take instructions.

Thank you @prh47bridge