NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

And a breath of fresh air from Scottish lawyers in Edinburgh re toilets as single sex spaces:

‘However, Kevin McKee, head of legal services at the council, rejected claims put forward by pro-trans activists that the implications of the legal rulings for single-sex provision remained unclear.

“Ourselves, a firm of solicitors, junior counsel and King’s Counsel all came back with the same view,” he said. “These issues have been looked at by the Supreme Court, which is obviously the primary authority in the United Kingdom and therefore the opinions we have are based on that decision. I think the legal advice is clear. I don’t, frankly, think it’s an evolving debate.” ‘

Schools ‘must enforce law’ on trans pupils’ toilet use

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c1c4b11f-0a02-4b1b-8470-a99c2a8a1540?shareToken=92f9f4adcce3a922f2bce33634e6352b

All this wibbling on about DSDs, about how it isn't clear who is a man and who is a woman , but as far as I recall at no point has anyone asked whether DU has one. It's almost certain he doesn't - I assume if he did then his team would have mentioned it - in which case it's yet another thing that's completely irrelevant to the case.

Re Roman Originals: IMO, Roman make dresses for real women, not skinnymalinks.

NB, in case it's not obvious, I'm not, and never have been, one of the cool girls.

Thinking about that pristine white suit again, it's so bloody performative and manipulative isn't it. An angel or a priest or white knight. All about the image. Look at the vision of MEEEE, what I represent and the truths and enlightenment that I shall bestow upon you. You SHALL believe!

NC just turns up day after day in a black suit so unremarkable I can remember absolutely nothing about it and cracks on with being a good lawyer using her words.

I won't post link but there is a clinic in US beginning with M providing "penile preserving vaginoplasty". With pics. At same time lamenting treatment of women and immigrants under current regime. But hey someone got over 10 cms depth! And kept the prominence.

My hometown paper:

https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/25434625.sandie-peggie-lawyers-ordered-redact-dr-uptons-deadname/#Echobox=1756811921

It’s quite a look for the Be Kind brigade, isn’t it? Do something wrong = no human rights. Good news for all people serving time in prison or on probation, eh?

Can we just remind ourselves that practically every person in that courtroom on Uptons side, correctly sexed him at least once in their performances.

Well that's what Amnesty International Ireland said - that GC women should lose their right to vote. Yes, Amnesty!

I'm pretty sure both sides said in oral submissions that he doesn't. Certainly NC did, and wasn't contradicted.

Re the uncomfortable white suit, didn't JR wear a clearly uncomfortable and unusual outfit (possibly the same one) for closing submissions in another recent case?

A bit off track but wanted to ask if others have noticed similar?
…” it’s not what you said, it’s the way that you said it”
This is straight out of the mouth of a teen struggling with anorexia. The parallels between eating disorders and trans are becoming more and more evident to me. The only difference is that one is considered a mental illness for which there is evidence based treatment. Treatment for trans teens on the other hand colludes with the delusion. I just can’t understand it.

Just to say too that Beetle's interior scenes remind me of Rupert Bear annuals in 1960s. Which i loved. Tidy and cosy. And probably an actual teapot.

It also kinda overlooks that fact that it's not just the nasty meanies that don't have single sex spaces but also the preteen girls experiencing their first periods, the 'nice' nurses who have never shared an ill judged joke, the fragile old ladies, the charity workers, the shy, quiet new mothers, rape victim trying to get back a sense of normal and everyone in between. Where does no SSS for you because you are nasty think the 'deserving' line falls? Did Mother Theresa deserve single sex spaces?

Excellent point!

It’s a thin line. Every person is worthy of protection; but not every sort of behaviour. I think JR’s argument took her to the wrong side of that line, suggesting a nurse had to be “kind”.

Just caught up. What a day.

@MyrtleLion I won't QT but re your copy paste of Boswell, it may be of interest to also keep an eye on this guy who is good (and patient and persistent) in exposing the flaws in Boswell's AI generated verbiage. https://x.com/JtheAIwhisperer/status/1962939194386661704

Anecdotal, but I have been told that (on return after the summer holidays) kids in one Edinburgh secondary school were notified in assembly that the toilets had been put back to single sex, and the girls cheered.

I think there's hope for the Guardian. They still have a few journalists there who know the score, and are prepared to say so. The oil-tanker is turning, a bit. But with Viner at the helm, I can't see them doing a 180 any time soon. But as with the BBC, any signs of waking up and seeing the real world are welcome.

A man in Canada just got a court ruling that public healthcare had to provide him an operation to provide a vagina, along side his penis that he's planning to keep.

I kid you not.

Perhaps he's hoping to try to impregnate himself? The mind boggles.

I agree. It's a good point to highlight.

Wow. I didn't see that question coming. Go Big Sond!

I'm choosing to interpret this as the judge's revenge for all JR's pissing about. Can't say female without looking like a total eejit, can't say male without pissing off one of her clients.

Glad I wasn't watching on line as I would've died of fremdschamen (I think there are some umlauts missing there).

Rupert "The" Bear, please. He's nothing without his middle name.

Yeah they have a name for that, don't they? 🙄The combination of solipsism and misogny is quite remarkable, isn't it? Why is anyone pandering to these pathetic specimens?