Page 19 | Posting upton’s old photos and name on twitter

Biggadyboom · 2025-09-02T07:22:43+00:00

Look I’ve been in these discussions since before this forum existed. You don’t need to break it down for me. I peaked in 2018. But the endless sharing of upton’s name accompanied by photos and horrible comments about him and his wife is not nice. It is totally is transphobia. It’s horrible. I could kind of understand the point of it, if it was just the name being shared. But equally the court has ruled that Upton has a right to privacy. I thought it was all about respecting court’s rulings? but the sharing of private photos (presumably grabbed from social media) and especially their wedding photo with insults to both of them and speculation about their marriage is awful and will not help their be a resolution to this debate. It polarises it even more and is transphobia. fair enough, don’t let Upton change the rules of the country and workplace based on personal beliefs . But that doesn’t involve posting personal information and photos , insults and horrible speculation. or are we just going low now?

DeanElderberry · 03/09/2025 10:31

SirBasil · 03/09/2025 10:23

that is my point.

Show quote history

we should be like Afghan women, silent and not visible, even through windows

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:32

And here is a fundamental misunderstanding, of which you exhibit so very many.
Non gender conforming people have existed since dot & now have the freedom to express themselves fully & publicly.
Having arrived here only last week, you must have missed the frequent threads in which we discuss our attitudes to gender conformity, and in which many (perhaps the majority?) of us acknowledge that we ourselves do not conform. The clue is in the name: "gender critical". We are critical not just of gender identity theory but of gender norms themselves. We welcome the loosening of gender norms in modern society. We don't think women should necessarily bake cakes, or wear pretty dresses and makeup, or be sweet and agreeable. Yes, we can do those things if we want, but we don't have to. You may also have noticed that some of us are rude and aggressive, that is, we exhibit behaviour more commonly associated with men.
But here's the important bit: we draw the line at sex. Women who are rude and aggressive are still women, and men who wear dresses are still men. The difference lies in our physical bodies, not our behaviour.
Oh, but now you're going to say that if some women are aggressive, then we have no justification to eliminate only men from our single sex spaces. Wrong. I repeat, the difference lies in our physical bodies. Men are much stronger than women, they have cocks, and they have a testosterone-fuelled sexual urge that causes some (not all) of them to disregard women's boundaries. And because we don't know which of them are the wrong 'uns, we keep all of them out. Including the ones who wear dresses.
So please, if you genuinely want to engage with us in debate, take the time to find out who we are and what we believe, and why we believe it. Don't just bombard us with cut-and-paste posts cobbled together in three minutes flat, composed of insults, catch phrases, and links to material that is either irrelevant or has already been debunked multiple times.
And if you continue with your current posting style, you're just going to get abuse. Too bad.

So let me get this straight, stereotypes are wrong except when they apply to men? Got it.

Can't have it both ways.

But I appreciate your time to express this view however estranged from reality. You claim to be anti stereotypes & yet are completely oblivious to your culpability in maintaining them. You just like everyone else would distinguish males from females IN PRACTICE via stereotypical/archetypal gendered associations because you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings. In fact you do it so fast you don't even know you are doing it. Trans people don't make the rules on social gendered categorisations the actions of larger society do. The just follow the crowd. Now no one is suggesting these societal constructed rules are 'right'. But they are what they are. No one is being prescriptivist here in saying gendered stereotypes should be used to distinguish males from females, they are being descriptivist of reality..a reality you helped create & probably won't change because inherent personality traits influenced by chromosomes, genes & hormones drive those inclinations that get categorised into separate groups via overwhelming occurrence.

DeanElderberry · 03/09/2025 10:38

I experienced harassment and assault from males for decades. Never from females. Nothing to do with stereotypes.

This report isn't about stereotypes.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403475-latest-femicide-census-published

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2025 10:39

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:32

And here is a fundamental misunderstanding, of which you exhibit so very many.
Non gender conforming people have existed since dot & now have the freedom to express themselves fully & publicly.
Having arrived here only last week, you must have missed the frequent threads in which we discuss our attitudes to gender conformity, and in which many (perhaps the majority?) of us acknowledge that we ourselves do not conform. The clue is in the name: "gender critical". We are critical not just of gender identity theory but of gender norms themselves. We welcome the loosening of gender norms in modern society. We don't think women should necessarily bake cakes, or wear pretty dresses and makeup, or be sweet and agreeable. Yes, we can do those things if we want, but we don't have to. You may also have noticed that some of us are rude and aggressive, that is, we exhibit behaviour more commonly associated with men.
But here's the important bit: we draw the line at sex. Women who are rude and aggressive are still women, and men who wear dresses are still men. The difference lies in our physical bodies, not our behaviour.
Oh, but now you're going to say that if some women are aggressive, then we have no justification to eliminate only men from our single sex spaces. Wrong. I repeat, the difference lies in our physical bodies. Men are much stronger than women, they have cocks, and they have a testosterone-fuelled sexual urge that causes some (not all) of them to disregard women's boundaries. And because we don't know which of them are the wrong 'uns, we keep all of them out. Including the ones who wear dresses.
So please, if you genuinely want to engage with us in debate, take the time to find out who we are and what we believe, and why we believe it. Don't just bombard us with cut-and-paste posts cobbled together in three minutes flat, composed of insults, catch phrases, and links to material that is either irrelevant or has already been debunked multiple times.
And if you continue with your current posting style, you're just going to get abuse. Too bad.

So let me get this straight, stereotypes are wrong except when they apply to men? Got it.

Can't have it both ways.

But I appreciate your time to express this view however estranged from reality. You claim to be anti stereotypes & yet are completely oblivious to your culpability in maintaining them. You just like everyone else would distinguish males from females IN PRACTICE via stereotypical/archetypal gendered associations because you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings. In fact you do it so fast you don't even know you are doing it. Trans people don't make the rules on social gendered categorisations the actions of larger society do. The just follow the crowd. Now no one is suggesting these societal constructed rules are 'right'. But they are what they are. No one is being prescriptivist here in saying gendered stereotypes should be used to distinguish males from females, they are being descriptivist of reality..a reality you helped create & probably won't change because inherent personality traits influenced by chromosomes, genes & hormones drive those inclinations that get categorised into separate groups via overwhelming occurrence.

You quite clearly havent understood a word of that post

🙄

unreasonablebaguette · 03/09/2025 10:39

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:32

And here is a fundamental misunderstanding, of which you exhibit so very many.
Non gender conforming people have existed since dot & now have the freedom to express themselves fully & publicly.
Having arrived here only last week, you must have missed the frequent threads in which we discuss our attitudes to gender conformity, and in which many (perhaps the majority?) of us acknowledge that we ourselves do not conform. The clue is in the name: "gender critical". We are critical not just of gender identity theory but of gender norms themselves. We welcome the loosening of gender norms in modern society. We don't think women should necessarily bake cakes, or wear pretty dresses and makeup, or be sweet and agreeable. Yes, we can do those things if we want, but we don't have to. You may also have noticed that some of us are rude and aggressive, that is, we exhibit behaviour more commonly associated with men.
But here's the important bit: we draw the line at sex. Women who are rude and aggressive are still women, and men who wear dresses are still men. The difference lies in our physical bodies, not our behaviour.
Oh, but now you're going to say that if some women are aggressive, then we have no justification to eliminate only men from our single sex spaces. Wrong. I repeat, the difference lies in our physical bodies. Men are much stronger than women, they have cocks, and they have a testosterone-fuelled sexual urge that causes some (not all) of them to disregard women's boundaries. And because we don't know which of them are the wrong 'uns, we keep all of them out. Including the ones who wear dresses.
So please, if you genuinely want to engage with us in debate, take the time to find out who we are and what we believe, and why we believe it. Don't just bombard us with cut-and-paste posts cobbled together in three minutes flat, composed of insults, catch phrases, and links to material that is either irrelevant or has already been debunked multiple times.
And if you continue with your current posting style, you're just going to get abuse. Too bad.

So let me get this straight, stereotypes are wrong except when they apply to men? Got it.

Can't have it both ways.

But I appreciate your time to express this view however estranged from reality. You claim to be anti stereotypes & yet are completely oblivious to your culpability in maintaining them. You just like everyone else would distinguish males from females IN PRACTICE via stereotypical/archetypal gendered associations because you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings. In fact you do it so fast you don't even know you are doing it. Trans people don't make the rules on social gendered categorisations the actions of larger society do. The just follow the crowd. Now no one is suggesting these societal constructed rules are 'right'. But they are what they are. No one is being prescriptivist here in saying gendered stereotypes should be used to distinguish males from females, they are being descriptivist of reality..a reality you helped create & probably won't change because inherent personality traits influenced by chromosomes, genes & hormones drive those inclinations that get categorised into separate groups via overwhelming occurrence.

Is there a reason you’re unable to use the quote function?

ThatCyanCat · 03/09/2025 10:47

There are a few men trawling the boards right now (things are hotting up and TRAs are looking really bad, so they're sweating) who know they haven't got a case, so they use a very well-known deflection tactic that goes by the technical term of "crapflooding". The idea is to divert attention from the actual issue at hand, usually with long, bloviated walls of text which amount to pretty much nothing but "no its not lol im clever than u". This works for them because trying to feel cleverer than women is in fact the only reason they're here - like they give a toss about anyone's human rights. Whatever you say, they will simply use 5000 words to say "no its not lol" and when people eventually see it for the time wasting tactic it is, they will crow that you "can't answer the points".

It's infuriating, and it's meant to be, but it's a short term strategy that literally everyone can see through and long term, it doesn't work. However much they talk and attempt to belittle and patronise because we're women and that's all that's required, long term we're seeing men in women's changing rooms and comedy writers being arrested, and you simply cannot windbag or word salad your way out of those ones.

Typicalwave · 03/09/2025 10:48

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:32

And here is a fundamental misunderstanding, of which you exhibit so very many.
Non gender conforming people have existed since dot & now have the freedom to express themselves fully & publicly.
Having arrived here only last week, you must have missed the frequent threads in which we discuss our attitudes to gender conformity, and in which many (perhaps the majority?) of us acknowledge that we ourselves do not conform. The clue is in the name: "gender critical". We are critical not just of gender identity theory but of gender norms themselves. We welcome the loosening of gender norms in modern society. We don't think women should necessarily bake cakes, or wear pretty dresses and makeup, or be sweet and agreeable. Yes, we can do those things if we want, but we don't have to. You may also have noticed that some of us are rude and aggressive, that is, we exhibit behaviour more commonly associated with men.
But here's the important bit: we draw the line at sex. Women who are rude and aggressive are still women, and men who wear dresses are still men. The difference lies in our physical bodies, not our behaviour.
Oh, but now you're going to say that if some women are aggressive, then we have no justification to eliminate only men from our single sex spaces. Wrong. I repeat, the difference lies in our physical bodies. Men are much stronger than women, they have cocks, and they have a testosterone-fuelled sexual urge that causes some (not all) of them to disregard women's boundaries. And because we don't know which of them are the wrong 'uns, we keep all of them out. Including the ones who wear dresses.
So please, if you genuinely want to engage with us in debate, take the time to find out who we are and what we believe, and why we believe it. Don't just bombard us with cut-and-paste posts cobbled together in three minutes flat, composed of insults, catch phrases, and links to material that is either irrelevant or has already been debunked multiple times.
And if you continue with your current posting style, you're just going to get abuse. Too bad.

So let me get this straight, stereotypes are wrong except when they apply to men? Got it.

Can't have it both ways.

But I appreciate your time to express this view however estranged from reality. You claim to be anti stereotypes & yet are completely oblivious to your culpability in maintaining them. You just like everyone else would distinguish males from females IN PRACTICE via stereotypical/archetypal gendered associations because you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings. In fact you do it so fast you don't even know you are doing it. Trans people don't make the rules on social gendered categorisations the actions of larger society do. The just follow the crowd. Now no one is suggesting these societal constructed rules are 'right'. But they are what they are. No one is being prescriptivist here in saying gendered stereotypes should be used to distinguish males from females, they are being descriptivist of reality..a reality you helped create & probably won't change because inherent personality traits influenced by chromosomes, genes & hormones drive those inclinations that get categorised into separate groups via overwhelming occurrence.

Someone doesn’t understand safeguarding.

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:48

Is there a reason you’re unable to use the quote function?

Didn't know there was one. Will use from now.😀

Typicalwave · 03/09/2025 10:53

ThatCyanCat · 03/09/2025 10:47

There are a few men trawling the boards right now (things are hotting up and TRAs are looking really bad, so they're sweating) who know they haven't got a case, so they use a very well-known deflection tactic that goes by the technical term of "crapflooding". The idea is to divert attention from the actual issue at hand, usually with long, bloviated walls of text which amount to pretty much nothing but "no its not lol im clever than u". This works for them because trying to feel cleverer than women is in fact the only reason they're here - like they give a toss about anyone's human rights. Whatever you say, they will simply use 5000 words to say "no its not lol" and when people eventually see it for the time wasting tactic it is, they will crow that you "can't answer the points".

It's infuriating, and it's meant to be, but it's a short term strategy that literally everyone can see through and long term, it doesn't work. However much they talk and attempt to belittle and patronise because we're women and that's all that's required, long term we're seeing men in women's changing rooms and comedy writers being arrested, and you simply cannot windbag or word salad your way out of those ones.

Edited

‘Bloviating’

Its a wonderfully descriptive word for abusive men who hide behind feigned concern and pseudo-intellect

MyAmpleSheep · 03/09/2025 10:55

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:32

And here is a fundamental misunderstanding, of which you exhibit so very many.
Non gender conforming people have existed since dot & now have the freedom to express themselves fully & publicly.
Having arrived here only last week, you must have missed the frequent threads in which we discuss our attitudes to gender conformity, and in which many (perhaps the majority?) of us acknowledge that we ourselves do not conform. The clue is in the name: "gender critical". We are critical not just of gender identity theory but of gender norms themselves. We welcome the loosening of gender norms in modern society. We don't think women should necessarily bake cakes, or wear pretty dresses and makeup, or be sweet and agreeable. Yes, we can do those things if we want, but we don't have to. You may also have noticed that some of us are rude and aggressive, that is, we exhibit behaviour more commonly associated with men.
But here's the important bit: we draw the line at sex. Women who are rude and aggressive are still women, and men who wear dresses are still men. The difference lies in our physical bodies, not our behaviour.
Oh, but now you're going to say that if some women are aggressive, then we have no justification to eliminate only men from our single sex spaces. Wrong. I repeat, the difference lies in our physical bodies. Men are much stronger than women, they have cocks, and they have a testosterone-fuelled sexual urge that causes some (not all) of them to disregard women's boundaries. And because we don't know which of them are the wrong 'uns, we keep all of them out. Including the ones who wear dresses.
So please, if you genuinely want to engage with us in debate, take the time to find out who we are and what we believe, and why we believe it. Don't just bombard us with cut-and-paste posts cobbled together in three minutes flat, composed of insults, catch phrases, and links to material that is either irrelevant or has already been debunked multiple times.
And if you continue with your current posting style, you're just going to get abuse. Too bad.

So let me get this straight, stereotypes are wrong except when they apply to men? Got it.

Can't have it both ways.

But I appreciate your time to express this view however estranged from reality. You claim to be anti stereotypes & yet are completely oblivious to your culpability in maintaining them. You just like everyone else would distinguish males from females IN PRACTICE via stereotypical/archetypal gendered associations because you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings. In fact you do it so fast you don't even know you are doing it. Trans people don't make the rules on social gendered categorisations the actions of larger society do. The just follow the crowd. Now no one is suggesting these societal constructed rules are 'right'. But they are what they are. No one is being prescriptivist here in saying gendered stereotypes should be used to distinguish males from females, they are being descriptivist of reality..a reality you helped create & probably won't change because inherent personality traits influenced by chromosomes, genes & hormones drive those inclinations that get categorised into separate groups via overwhelming occurrence.

So let me get this straight, stereotypes are wrong except when they apply to men?

the Equality Act 2010 is all about stereotypes and acknowledges that some stereotypes are important, accurate and it benefits society to allow or require discrimination on the basis of them. Because we don’t know which men may cause offence or injury in places where women undress, we require all men to stay out. That’s an approved sex stereotype under that law.

If you want to dismantle that sex stereotype you need to change the law, because it’s baked in.

on the other hand, we reject stereotypes where they are not beneficial: such as boys play with toy guns and girls like pink.

AnSolas · 03/09/2025 10:56

Biggadyboom · 03/09/2025 09:31

You consider me a TRA ? WOW

mental

anyway must resist desire to check back and ruin flounce. must do some work. you all have someone else to argue with now.

Edited

Show quote history

Tbf MRA who could not organise a piss up in a fully stocked fully staffed pub offering free booze is not per sa offering an argument.

Rehashing the same old links and ye oldie "men in dresses are not men because they choose to wear dresses" but its bad to point out the the poster is demanding these men be allowed into WSSS because they "choose to wear dresses", a little "women get raped anyway" so why care about the 4+N women.

The whole DARVO and the chance of personal abusing other MNers is imo what that poster is after.

Never the less its just an chance to keep your thread trending and educate some readers under operation Let them speak 😀

ParmaVioletTea · 03/09/2025 10:59

My profile on twitter is my real identity (use it for work) and I work in the arts, so if I tried to have a discussion on there I would never work again. So I suppose I decided to come here instead.

I understand this @Biggadyboom as I'm in much the same position. Although I'm salaried not freelance, so what feels like a slight cooling from some quarters of my broad network of colleagues doesn't touch my security or income.

I've also been accused in here in FWR of being n bad faith or an undercover TRA. It's impossible really to prove one is not ...

But I think that given the way FWR is so apt to be trolled by MRA/TRA types to re-post & complain (and look at what happened to @Glinner just this week) the touchiness about debate & discussion is understandable. I think you've been pretty transparent & open (re feminist POV, name changing etc) but my tendency is (perhaps naively) to take people at their own account.

Good luck - I've just been at a big meeting in my professional field and have been faced with just how captured the arts are. And on hearing a couple of talks by men, exploring why they might "really" be women because of their rejection of stereotypical masculinity, I can get your statement that you rationally believe that Upton (irrationally) believes he's "really" a woman. It's clear to both of us he's not, but I have seen/heard exactly how some men believe this rubbish about their rejection of masculinity.

ThatCyanCat · 03/09/2025 11:01

Typicalwave · 03/09/2025 10:53

‘Bloviating’

Its a wonderfully descriptive word for abusive men who hide behind feigned concern and pseudo-intellect

Show quote history

The TRA School of Windbag Rhetoric.

Beowulfa · 03/09/2025 11:02

you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings.

If you are seriously suggesting that people do not know the sex of those they encounter every day you are laughably deluded. Men might just see tits and long hair, but women clock male physique, male gait, male stance and male demeanour all the time. Look up the classic photo of Eddie Izzard (pink coat, short skirt, high heels) queuing for the ladies with some actual women (trousers, anoraks).

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 11:02

Typicalwave · 03/09/2025 10:48

Someone doesn’t understand safeguarding.

Show quote history

And someone doesn't understand guilt by association & the consequences.

You think this will just apply here? You think this is the only issue this kind of thinking influences? You think that because its justified here to hell with what this normalises everywhere else?

Someone doesn't understand principles & that when you start to chip away at them at convenience everyone suffers.

AnSolas · 03/09/2025 11:03

Bobbymoore123 · 03/09/2025 09:39

You've all shown yourselves to be very reasonable in this discussion and not at all protesting too much over someone raising concerns of hate-speech in good faith.

I hope newcomers to this forum read this thread first and then never come back.

Is this a drive by scold or do you have an opinion on why MN posters are responsible for what is posted on X?

Helleofabore · 03/09/2025 11:04

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 09:34

Screen shots please.

https://theweek.com/feature/1020838/jk-rowlings-transphobia-controversy-a-complete-timeline

I found that a current version of this article is archived

http://archive.today/wkU44

And keeping in mind we are looking for JK Rowing saying 'they (people with transgender identities) are all predatory sex fetishists.'

These are the 'incident' sections:

2018: Rowling 'likes' an anti-trans tweet, says it was an accident

2019: Rowling stands with researcher who lost contract over anti-trans statements

2020: Rowling likes another controversial tweet

2020: Rowling's tweets spark backlash

2020: Rowling publishes essay defending her stance as actors speak out

2020: Rowling returns award after being condemned for her statements

2020: Critics suggest Rowling's new novel is anti-trans

2021: Rowling criticizes police for letting rape suspects identify as women

2022: Rowling criticizes bill that would make legally changing gender easier

2022: Quidditch distances itself from Rowling

2022: Rowling publishes a book about a character being accused of transphobia

2022: Rowling responds to calls to boycott 'Hogwarts Legacy'

2024: Rowling targets Scotland's new hate crime law

2024: Rowling named in cyberbullying lawsuit

2024: Rowling responds to Donald Trump's win

2024: Rowling attacks another athlete

2024: Rowling insists trans kids do not exist

2025: Rowling celebrates U.K. Supreme Court ruling

2025: Rowling launches fund for 'women's sex-based rights'

Nowhere in these sections is JK Rowing saying 'they (people with transgender identities) are all predatory sex fetishists.'

Anyone saying that this article points to J K Rowing saying 'they (people with transgender identities) are all predatory sex fetishists' has not read the article or has misread these tweets. Even by any loose interpretation she has not made this generalised accusation.

Is this where I post 'false' or in capitals? Maybe with a laughing emoji? Or 'comprehension fail'? Maybe with googly eyes?

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2025 11:04

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 11:02

And someone doesn't understand guilt by association & the consequences.

You think this will just apply here? You think this is the only issue this kind of thinking influences? You think that because its justified here to hell with what this normalises everywhere else?

Someone doesn't understand principles & that when you start to chip away at them at convenience everyone suffers.

Show quote history

Guilt by association is not relevant to safeguarding.

Safeguarding requires that we make judgements based on patterns of behaviour and data. Safeguarding cannot function on an individual by individual basis.

Helleofabore · 03/09/2025 11:06

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 10:48

Is there a reason you’re unable to use the quote function?

Didn't know there was one. Will use from now.😀

We have been telling you for a week.

Did you think we were just lying to you?

Helleofabore · 03/09/2025 11:08

Beowulfa · 03/09/2025 11:02

you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings.

If you are seriously suggesting that people do not know the sex of those they encounter every day you are laughably deluded. Men might just see tits and long hair, but women clock male physique, male gait, male stance and male demeanour all the time. Look up the classic photo of Eddie Izzard (pink coat, short skirt, high heels) queuing for the ladies with some actual women (trousers, anoraks).

It helps to repeat it as many times as needed.

Beowulfa · 03/09/2025 11:09

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 11:02

And someone doesn't understand guilt by association & the consequences.

You think this will just apply here? You think this is the only issue this kind of thinking influences? You think that because its justified here to hell with what this normalises everywhere else?

Someone doesn't understand principles & that when you start to chip away at them at convenience everyone suffers.

Show quote history

I am DBS checked as I volunteer with those classed as vulnerable. Most of the volunteers are middle aged women, the least likely demographic to commit violent or sexual crime. And yet we are all regularly DBS checked, without fuss or drama. Because we know this isn't "guilt by association", it is essential safeguarding.

If you are Australian you may wish to look up the Soham murders and learn why DBS (formerly CRB) checks were brought in and why there should be no sacred castes.

AnSolas · 03/09/2025 11:09

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/09/2025 09:48

Please link to one example of JK Rowling threatening violence against trans people, implicitly or otherwise.

I am not on Twitter because I got tired of trans identifying men sending me pictures of their penis, apparently in an attempt to convince me that I was wrong about them not being real women.

Edited

Show quote history

Have a kitten (or three)

I snuck in extra to help brainbleach
(Can be swapped for puppies)

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 11:10

Beowulfa · 03/09/2025 11:02

you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings.

If you are seriously suggesting that people do not know the sex of those they encounter every day you are laughably deluded. Men might just see tits and long hair, but women clock male physique, male gait, male stance and male demeanour all the time. Look up the classic photo of Eddie Izzard (pink coat, short skirt, high heels) queuing for the ladies with some actual women (trousers, anoraks).

Firstly whether you can accurately detect sex (& you can't) isn't the point. The point is other cues are used & they aren't chromosomes, ovaries or genitals.

Secondly, it's a spectacular ignorance of biological variation. Yes biological variation is 'real' its why intersex people exist as well as ambiguity in morphology. Whilst most people's morphology will reflect their sex, exceptions exist as they do in gendered psychological traits.

Thirdly, the time is upon us where puberty blockers hormones & surgery will render natural puberty null & void. How will you tell then?

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 11:10

Beowulfa · 03/09/2025 11:02

you usually don't know the sexual characteristics of others in you day to day dealings.

If you are seriously suggesting that people do not know the sex of those they encounter every day you are laughably deluded. Men might just see tits and long hair, but women clock male physique, male gait, male stance and male demeanour all the time. Look up the classic photo of Eddie Izzard (pink coat, short skirt, high heels) queuing for the ladies with some actual women (trousers, anoraks).

Firstly whether you can accurately detect sex (& you can't) isn't the point. The point is other cues are used & they aren't chromosomes, ovaries or genitals.

Secondly, it's a spectacular ignorance of biological variation. Yes biological variation is 'real' its why intersex people exist as well as ambiguity in morphology. Whilst most people's morphology will reflect their sex, exceptions exist as they do in gendered psychological traits.

Thirdly, the time is upon us where puberty blockers hormones & surgery will render natural puberty null & void. How will you tell then?

Typicalwave · 03/09/2025 11:11

Howseitgoin · 03/09/2025 11:02

And someone doesn't understand guilt by association & the consequences.

You think this will just apply here? You think this is the only issue this kind of thinking influences? You think that because its justified here to hell with what this normalises everywhere else?

Someone doesn't understand principles & that when you start to chip away at them at convenience everyone suffers.

Show quote history

More ‘I don’t understand safeguarding’