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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR Didn’t Have an Opinion. She Poisoned the Well

1000 replies

CSIRCP · 28/08/2025 14:32

This post will likely be a little too long for most, but if you can spare the time and have a cuppa handy let's sit down and have a chat, shall we?

Firstly, let’s stop calling this a debate. It’s not. This isn’t two sets of ideas clashing. This is one woman’s fear and confusion being weaponized against an entire community.

What J.K. Rowling has done is not just share an opinion. She’s poisoned the well. And that poison is spreading through politics, education, the media, and even the courts.

At the beginning, it might have looked like a tweet. Then a blog. But what she wrote in that essay was revealing: “If I’d been born thirty years later, I too might have tried to transition. The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge.”
That’s not neutral. That’s projection. It was a confession, repackaged as concern. She projected her own dysphoria and personal battles onto the entire trans community and used it as the foundation for a movement built on suspicion and fear.

She said she cared about women’s rights. Then aligned herself with those who believe all trans women are predators.
She liked racist and Islamophobic tweets. She repeated antisemitic tropes. She cast activists as violent men in dresses. She accused anyone who challenged her of misogyny while branding herself the face of feminism.
All the while she built up a devoted audience that now includes some of the most extreme anti-trans voices in Britain and beyond.

This “gender critical” movement is not about safety, and it’s certainly not about truth. It’s about control.
Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull (Posie Parker), one of Rowling’s ideological allies, has welcomed neo-Nazis to her rallies. Actual Nazis. The kind of people Rowling once wrote villains about.
In one case, people connected to this movement were linked to the satanic terror group 764 — a group that has influenced teen suicides and violent attacks in UK schools. Let that sink in. This is who she’s empowering.

She didn’t just turn away when that started. She doubled down. She gave this movement a gloss of legitimacy. She used her fame to funnel people toward disinformation, fear, and cruelty—and dressed it all up as feminism. But it isn’t feminism when it excludes, vilifies, and harms other women. Especially trans women. Especially intersex people. Especially anyone who doesn’t fit into the narrow fantasy of who is acceptable.

Rowling’s language now echoes in government documents. Her phrases like “gender ideology” have been lifted from far right sources, including the Vatican and authoritarian regimes, and mainstreamed into British law. Her influence helped set the stage for the UK Supreme Court to redefine the word “woman” based on sex assigned at birth, stripping rights from trans and intersex people under the Equality Act. That’s what happens when the well is poisoned. People stop thinking. They start reacting.

Meanwhile, her cult chant her slogans as though they are scientific fact. But science says otherwise. Peer-reviewed studies show that trans people’s brain structures do not align with their sex assigned at birth. They show that gender identity forms in the womb, shaped by hormones and biology not ideology. Large-scale DNA studies have found gene variants linked to gender incongruence. And intersex people exist. That is biological fact. Not one of these truths can be erased by Rowling’s fiction.

What makes this so dangerous is how calm it all sounds. Rowling doesn’t scream. She whispers. She calls it “concern.” She says she’s “just asking questions.”
But it’s never neutral to question someone’s right to exist. It’s not a debate when one side is simply trying to live and the other is trying to strip away their legal recognition and healthcare.

This isn’t just a disagreement. This is a slow campaign of erasure, led by someone with a global platform and millions in the bank.

She’s not some deluded soul from MN; she’s a multi-millionaire author whose words shape global policy. She’s not being silenced. She’s being echoed by judges, by pundits, by politicians trying to climb the ladder by stepping on the backs of trans, non-binary, and intersex people.

And let’s not pretend it stops there. Her influence has allowed people to feel safe expressing open homophobia, biphobia, and hatred toward anyone who challenges gender norms. Some of the same people aligned with her have mocked survivors, denied racism, and claimed slavery was “fine” if it was “kind.”
This is not a group grounded in empathy. It’s a movement that thrives on exclusion and resentment. Some of them now openly identify as neo Nazis. That’s where we are.

So next time someone says “she’s just worried” or “she’s not anti-trans” or “can’t we just disagree,” consider these words. Show them what poison looks like. Not just hateful speech but the deliberate seeding of doubt, division, and cruelty, all wrapped in a soft voice and a smug smile. J.K. Rowling didn’t protect anyone. She infected people. And when she’s gone, her legacy won’t be literature it will be the damage she left behind.

You don’t need to cancel her. You just need to see her clearly.
And if you blindly follow Rowling and her ideas then you need to reflect on what you’re really endorsing.

Because ignorance is not an excuse. Not anymore.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
BezMills · 29/08/2025 09:52

it just generally shows (again) a complete lack of respect. To come here, sign up for a username, just to spaff out some LLM generated tosh and think yeah that will do. That will tell them, job's a goodun, I'm literally the man right now.

Nah, mate, really not good enough. I'd say try harder, but OP, did you even try in the first place?

Helleofabore · 29/08/2025 09:54

TheKeatingFive · 29/08/2025 09:03

You want to erase womens hard won rights.

Thats the bottom line, isnt it? That's the problem that you've created.

Oh but! Oh but! If he says he does want to erase women’s rights and that he loves women and just wants to be accepted as one enough times it has the effect of apparently not erasing women’s rights.

The inconsistency and incoherence of thought is just someone else’s reality. It is not his reality because he rejects it.

As soon as someone rejects one reality, apparently material reality changes to reflect that other version that the rejector wants to be real.

This is what I have learned from this week’s male posters.

Helleofabore · 29/08/2025 10:00

And yes Bez. I have typed out ‘Stop spaffing’ and deleted it numerous times this past week.

fromorbit · 29/08/2025 10:02

CSIRCP · 28/08/2025 14:32

This post will likely be a little too long for most, but if you can spare the time and have a cuppa handy let's sit down and have a chat, shall we?

Firstly, let’s stop calling this a debate. It’s not. This isn’t two sets of ideas clashing. This is one woman’s fear and confusion being weaponized against an entire community.

What J.K. Rowling has done is not just share an opinion. She’s poisoned the well. And that poison is spreading through politics, education, the media, and even the courts.

At the beginning, it might have looked like a tweet. Then a blog. But what she wrote in that essay was revealing: “If I’d been born thirty years later, I too might have tried to transition. The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge.”
That’s not neutral. That’s projection. It was a confession, repackaged as concern. She projected her own dysphoria and personal battles onto the entire trans community and used it as the foundation for a movement built on suspicion and fear.

She said she cared about women’s rights. Then aligned herself with those who believe all trans women are predators.
She liked racist and Islamophobic tweets. She repeated antisemitic tropes. She cast activists as violent men in dresses. She accused anyone who challenged her of misogyny while branding herself the face of feminism.
All the while she built up a devoted audience that now includes some of the most extreme anti-trans voices in Britain and beyond.

This “gender critical” movement is not about safety, and it’s certainly not about truth. It’s about control.
Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull (Posie Parker), one of Rowling’s ideological allies, has welcomed neo-Nazis to her rallies. Actual Nazis. The kind of people Rowling once wrote villains about.
In one case, people connected to this movement were linked to the satanic terror group 764 — a group that has influenced teen suicides and violent attacks in UK schools. Let that sink in. This is who she’s empowering.

She didn’t just turn away when that started. She doubled down. She gave this movement a gloss of legitimacy. She used her fame to funnel people toward disinformation, fear, and cruelty—and dressed it all up as feminism. But it isn’t feminism when it excludes, vilifies, and harms other women. Especially trans women. Especially intersex people. Especially anyone who doesn’t fit into the narrow fantasy of who is acceptable.

Rowling’s language now echoes in government documents. Her phrases like “gender ideology” have been lifted from far right sources, including the Vatican and authoritarian regimes, and mainstreamed into British law. Her influence helped set the stage for the UK Supreme Court to redefine the word “woman” based on sex assigned at birth, stripping rights from trans and intersex people under the Equality Act. That’s what happens when the well is poisoned. People stop thinking. They start reacting.

Meanwhile, her cult chant her slogans as though they are scientific fact. But science says otherwise. Peer-reviewed studies show that trans people’s brain structures do not align with their sex assigned at birth. They show that gender identity forms in the womb, shaped by hormones and biology not ideology. Large-scale DNA studies have found gene variants linked to gender incongruence. And intersex people exist. That is biological fact. Not one of these truths can be erased by Rowling’s fiction.

What makes this so dangerous is how calm it all sounds. Rowling doesn’t scream. She whispers. She calls it “concern.” She says she’s “just asking questions.”
But it’s never neutral to question someone’s right to exist. It’s not a debate when one side is simply trying to live and the other is trying to strip away their legal recognition and healthcare.

This isn’t just a disagreement. This is a slow campaign of erasure, led by someone with a global platform and millions in the bank.

She’s not some deluded soul from MN; she’s a multi-millionaire author whose words shape global policy. She’s not being silenced. She’s being echoed by judges, by pundits, by politicians trying to climb the ladder by stepping on the backs of trans, non-binary, and intersex people.

And let’s not pretend it stops there. Her influence has allowed people to feel safe expressing open homophobia, biphobia, and hatred toward anyone who challenges gender norms. Some of the same people aligned with her have mocked survivors, denied racism, and claimed slavery was “fine” if it was “kind.”
This is not a group grounded in empathy. It’s a movement that thrives on exclusion and resentment. Some of them now openly identify as neo Nazis. That’s where we are.

So next time someone says “she’s just worried” or “she’s not anti-trans” or “can’t we just disagree,” consider these words. Show them what poison looks like. Not just hateful speech but the deliberate seeding of doubt, division, and cruelty, all wrapped in a soft voice and a smug smile. J.K. Rowling didn’t protect anyone. She infected people. And when she’s gone, her legacy won’t be literature it will be the damage she left behind.

You don’t need to cancel her. You just need to see her clearly.
And if you blindly follow Rowling and her ideas then you need to reflect on what you’re really endorsing.

Because ignorance is not an excuse. Not anymore.

Why did JKR become a Terf?

I notice you missed out a key point in your narrative which I want to unpack.

There was a period between writing her first tweet expressing doubt in the "orthodox" idea of trans and gender identity [an orthodoxy which only gained power post 2000] to her writing her blog post.

During that time period did the majority of the "trans" and their allies community offer carefully voiced support explaining why her doubts were wrong?

Nope she was sent a tonne of death/rape threats, pornographic pictures and general abuse. They immediately switched to hating her saying she was evil and attempting to cancel and abuse one of the wealthiest women in the world. No doubt you may deny this, or try to excuse it away, but all the evidence is still around just look.

That was the majority response to JKR's move which at first was just asking questions. Having any doubt about any gender stuff was absolute heresy. Yes there were calmer voices in the "community", but as always they were ignored for the thrill of a witch-hunt. Remember too this was an online witchunt too. Hey everyone lets share a post attacking another human being that will go viral. I can make a video. Lets monetise the cancellation.

So what did JKR do. In the face of threats of violence and abuse. Guess what she went and talked to the other side the Terfs. She read their books and arguments and they convinced her. Did they do that by sending her death threats. No they did not. Because there is something wrong with you if you think expression of dissent over something as complex as gender is a reason to turn and hate absolutely someone previously very popular.

Also and this is a key thing she said she also said she talked to trans people in forming her view. Now the thing is beyond the "fake" consensus the reality is that people who say they are trans actually have a diversity of opinions. If she talked to someone who transitioned in the 80s and 90s early 2000s, she would have got a very sceptical discussion on the state of "trans" scene c 2019/2020. Indeed she could have talked to youngsters too who feel alienated by the "community" because they are the type of people who ask questions. It is a fact that many of these older or more dissenting youngsters either self exiled or were cast out of the "community". Many of these "trans" people did not love how a community that previously has tried to create support for seeming outcasts instead became a mirror of a cult like sect which hated any different thinking. A lot of people don't decide to become trans so they can hate people whether terfs, religious people or anyone else. They have never posted abusive comments against anyone. They don't care that much if people misgender them. They would never try and get someone fired for not believing they are a different gender. Now their beliefs that they or trans may be wrong unhealthy for them that is another question. The fact is the "trans community" has become power fixated and incapable of tolerating dissent and this was partially due to the weird cluster thinking creating by online discourse. Everyone who is honest knows this.

So it maybe that JKR is wrong in her thinking. {I think she is right myself.] Yet if you are honest you have to consider the part the utterly toxic online trans community surrounding this has become in pushing her to join with us.

The fact is a key reason the terf community has grown is not because of how horrible we all are. Or because we have lots of money from the US right. It is because many of us we were previously on the other side. We made the mistake of asking questions and then were abused. We noticed that when men said something doubtful they got ignored, but women were targeted. Rather than being scared into silence we decided to listen to trans people and terfs and we found the terfs and gender crotical people made MORE sense.

AnSolas · 29/08/2025 10:10

Sammybabes16 · 28/08/2025 15:23

I keep hearing that but it’s just not true. There is no evidence for this. It’s a myth. The U.K. and the USA are the most anti trans countries in western democracies. I lived in Norway and it isn’t an issue.

Be kind and feminist.

This Reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/norge/comments/1kv0039/to_transpersoner_d%C3%B8mt_for_voldtekt_og_seksuell/?show=original

Was this an actual court case?
3 men sexually abusing a 14 year old girl on a bus?

Would the men be classed as women in the raw data used for crime numbers?

Would these men be placed in a Womens Prison system rather than the Mens prison system?

Have conditions improved since 2017?
https://www.iprt.ie/women-offenders/norway-women-in-prison-a-thematic-report-about-the-conditions-for-female-prisoners-in-norway/

Norway: ‘Women in Prison: A Thematic Report about the conditions for female prisoners in Norway’
20th January 2017
The Norwegian Parliamentary Ombudsman has released a thematic report assessing the quality of conditions available for female prisoners in Norway. Women in Prison is the first thematic report published by the Parliamentary Ombudsman under its UN mandate as the national preventive mechanism against torture and ill-treatment. The report shows that the conditions in Norway for female prisoners are worse than those for male prisoners.
The report’s finding that conditions available for women arise from many contributing factors, such as the age of the facilities available to female prisoners, and the lower number of female prisoners compared to males. The lower number of women in the prison system leads towards the prison system being designed on the basis of the needs of male prisoners.
Key Findings of the Report:
• Several women's prisons are located in old and unsuitable buildings;
• Many women have significantly poorer access to outdoor areas and physical activities than men;
• Women consistently have poorer access to real work training than men;
• Female inmates often have other health problems than men, and therefore need different health services. Mental health care for women in prison should be improved;
• The substance abuse rehabilitation services offered to women in prison are inferior to those offered to men;
Women serving in mixed-sex prisons have an increased risk of unwanted attention or sexual harassment by male inmates;
• Some women risk having to serve in prisons with a higher level of security than their case indicates due to the limited number of prison places for women;
• Female inmates risk having to serve their sentence in prisons far away from their families and their own children because of the low number of suitable prison places. This can be particularly challenging for mothers who would like visits from children who cannot travel alone.

This was the "good old days" in Ireland before the Irish State started putting male child rapists into the Women Prison.

Norway: ‘Women in Prison: A Thematic Report about the conditio...

'Women in Prison' is the first thematic report published by the Norwegian Parliamentary Ombudsman under its UN mandate as the national preventive mechani...

https://www.iprt.ie/women-offenders/norway-women-in-prison-a-thematic-report-about-the-conditions-for-female-prisoners-in-norway/

Account734 · 29/08/2025 10:12

SnugPeach · 28/08/2025 23:41

Firstly ok thank you for acknowledging that I do experience distress.

Secondly ya I’m very much aware of the hard won rights women have gotten which has taken many years of fighting against an oppressive system that places men on top. Where women are still treated as lesser than men in all aspects of life. Healthcare, Safety, Law. Men are vastly more protected and the system works in a way to benefit them and protect them and their position. So yes I do understand the many fears many of you here have despite what you may think of me.

All I can say is this. I spent years and years, policing myself and my own feelings out of the fear of being seen as what some of you see me as now, a creepy man who wants to infiltrate some women’s space. I did that because I thought it was right. It bought me nothing but sadness, misery and contempt for my own existence. I don’t want to take or redefine anything away from you. I just want to be seen for who I am and included in that.

What do you mean by "included in that"? If you mean take away our privacy and dignity by entering female single sex spaces, that's not ok. And doing so does make you creepy (and worse in my opinion). Most people don't care how you dress, but we do care if you destroy our rights.

"I just want to be seen for who I am" You don't get to decide how other people see you. I get to decide how I see people and you don't get to alter my reality. Just like I don't get to decide how other people see me.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/08/2025 10:15

SnugPeach · 28/08/2025 23:41

Firstly ok thank you for acknowledging that I do experience distress.

Secondly ya I’m very much aware of the hard won rights women have gotten which has taken many years of fighting against an oppressive system that places men on top. Where women are still treated as lesser than men in all aspects of life. Healthcare, Safety, Law. Men are vastly more protected and the system works in a way to benefit them and protect them and their position. So yes I do understand the many fears many of you here have despite what you may think of me.

All I can say is this. I spent years and years, policing myself and my own feelings out of the fear of being seen as what some of you see me as now, a creepy man who wants to infiltrate some women’s space. I did that because I thought it was right. It bought me nothing but sadness, misery and contempt for my own existence. I don’t want to take or redefine anything away from you. I just want to be seen for who I am and included in that.

I don’t want to take or redefine anything away from you. I just want to be seen for who I am and included in that.

These two sentences are completely incompatible.

You cannot be included in the category "female" unless we first redefine "female" to include "male".

ArabellaScott · 29/08/2025 10:20

BezMills · 29/08/2025 09:52

it just generally shows (again) a complete lack of respect. To come here, sign up for a username, just to spaff out some LLM generated tosh and think yeah that will do. That will tell them, job's a goodun, I'm literally the man right now.

Nah, mate, really not good enough. I'd say try harder, but OP, did you even try in the first place?

Yes. Assuming that a man must always have the last word by virtue of his maleness.

We need evidence, reason, logic, and clarity. Coercive bullying doesn't work, especially not in the long run.

AnSolas · 29/08/2025 10:45

Sammybabes16 · 28/08/2025 15:42

Then indeed you know nothing about Norway or the rights of women there.

it seems when countries are successful with self ID you are unable to accept this and assume things which are wrong but fit your narrative.

Bless ❤️

What is the legal meaning of "woman" in Norway?
Is it female human?
Or
Is it either sex / both sex of human?

Sucessfull?

Ireland Gender Self ID certs since 2015.

GRC issued less than 1,000 to date.

1 child rapist GRC obtained sometime in or around the time of arrest and his conviction.

1 man went to court to prove that wanting to stab his mother to death and rape her as she bleeds out did not mean that he was not sane.
FYI the State left his GRC and put him in the Women Prison too.

His next trial about rape and death threats :
"I wanted to use an electric rod, but that wasn’t available to me. I remember thinking I wanted to use the handle of a sweeping brush or a mop. I wanted to torture her [Ms McGhee] sexually, I wanted to sexually electrocute her genitalia,” replied Kardashian.

Even that witness statement did not result in a jury saying guilty.

1 Bar figher went back into a pub to attack 3 men (normal girlie stuff).

So which countries are successful with self ID?

The13thFairy · 29/08/2025 10:48

I absolutely agree with Hitler and Nazis, and so do you - that grass is green, water is wet, dogs are nice, and mice don't generally roller skate. Disagree on practically everything else, though.

AnSolas · 29/08/2025 10:58

nutmeg7 · 28/08/2025 15:59

Oooh how terrible, OLD women.
Well they don't count then.

Or perhaps we had to fight for things like maternity leave, equal pay, and not being sexually assaulted casually at work, or in the street. Or for rape crisis centres to even exist. Perhaps we understand the value of women's female only spaces.

Perhaps we have more experience of life and how some men are abusive, and some have paraphilias.

Perhaps we have more self-respect for our own boundaries, and don't want to make ourselves doormats for any men who are unhappy and think that presenting as their idea of a woman will help.

Perhaps we remember that everyone used to be aware that voyeurism, stealing underwear, and men dressing in female fetish wear were male paraphilias.
We remember when it was understood that exhibitionism and flashing and breaching women's boundaries were gateway sexual offences that usually escalated.

Perhaps we're not so easily persuaded to "be kind" when we understand very well that not all men in dresses are doing this for harmless reasons. And there is no way to tell the difference between a gay transexual and a fetishistic heterosexual transvestite in any legal sense. They are all male.

Perhaps we have done a lot of reading, educated ourselves, and come to a clear understanding that this is all the emperor's new clothes, and no-one can change sex. "Gender" as an inner feeling is unverifiable, it's something you believe in, but we don't.

We spent our campaigning years aiming to get rid of gender-stereotyped boxes so that each sex can be a wide range of things. And now you want to put everyone into boxes labelled with "gender" according to how they present. It is SO regressive.

Edited

❤️

SionnachRuadh · 29/08/2025 11:04

One reason I sometimes bring up Ellen Page is not to roast her, because I feel quite sorry for her, but because she illustrates perfectly that you can't control how everyone else sees you.

Page has a whole army of sycophants on her social media who will swoon over each carefully posed photo and tell her how manly she looks. But see her in the wild post-transition, in interviews or acting, and try to tell yourself that. It's not just her tiny stature and delicate features, it's that her whole body language and mannerisms are unmistakably feminine.

Short hair and no breasts don't make a man any more than long hair and fake breasts make a woman.

I don't believe there's a single person who honestly believes Page is a man. She was never even a masculine woman.

I've found that, while getting older has its challenges, one great thing is that I care much less about what others think of me. I just try to be my own best self. Having a self-image that's contingent on other people seeing you as something you're not is setting yourself up for failure. At most you'll get people lying out of politeness, but you'll always know they're lying.

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 11:05

SnugPeach · Today 01:35

Despite the fact I want to be loved and accepted for who I am by everyone

Welcome to how just about everyone else in the world feels.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/08/2025 11:06

SionnachRuadh · 29/08/2025 11:04

One reason I sometimes bring up Ellen Page is not to roast her, because I feel quite sorry for her, but because she illustrates perfectly that you can't control how everyone else sees you.

Page has a whole army of sycophants on her social media who will swoon over each carefully posed photo and tell her how manly she looks. But see her in the wild post-transition, in interviews or acting, and try to tell yourself that. It's not just her tiny stature and delicate features, it's that her whole body language and mannerisms are unmistakably feminine.

Short hair and no breasts don't make a man any more than long hair and fake breasts make a woman.

I don't believe there's a single person who honestly believes Page is a man. She was never even a masculine woman.

I've found that, while getting older has its challenges, one great thing is that I care much less about what others think of me. I just try to be my own best self. Having a self-image that's contingent on other people seeing you as something you're not is setting yourself up for failure. At most you'll get people lying out of politeness, but you'll always know they're lying.

Agree with this.

And she was so beautiful and genuinely funny and talented and she just seems to have been swallowed whole by the gender Borg.

It's awful to say, but I don't see her living to an old age.

She also doesn't seem to have had many acting roles since coming out. Not compared to before.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/08/2025 11:14

In fact, it looks as though the only acting roles Page has had since transitioning are roles in which she plays a trans man (in the Umbrella Academy the female character she played comes out as a trans man), a film she directed and starred in where she also plays a trans man, and a voice only part where she plays a female character.

She can't sustain a long term career only playing trans men, can she?

I expect she can afford not to work again and just live off royalties from previous work, but that's not going to be great for her mental health.

BezMills · 29/08/2025 11:16

SionnachRuadh · 29/08/2025 11:04

One reason I sometimes bring up Ellen Page is not to roast her, because I feel quite sorry for her, but because she illustrates perfectly that you can't control how everyone else sees you.

Page has a whole army of sycophants on her social media who will swoon over each carefully posed photo and tell her how manly she looks. But see her in the wild post-transition, in interviews or acting, and try to tell yourself that. It's not just her tiny stature and delicate features, it's that her whole body language and mannerisms are unmistakably feminine.

Short hair and no breasts don't make a man any more than long hair and fake breasts make a woman.

I don't believe there's a single person who honestly believes Page is a man. She was never even a masculine woman.

I've found that, while getting older has its challenges, one great thing is that I care much less about what others think of me. I just try to be my own best self. Having a self-image that's contingent on other people seeing you as something you're not is setting yourself up for failure. At most you'll get people lying out of politeness, but you'll always know they're lying.

I am super sympathetic to Elliot Page - I remember her over-emoting stagey hand acting as a young teenager in Trailer Park Boys, and being delighted for her when she got some big roles in hollywood. The story she tells is sadly familiar, traumatic experience of puberty, abuse by trusted adults (the holywood people, not her parents) and seeking to escape from all that by becoming a man. I hope it's working out and she's happier now living as Elliot. I really do. She always came across as a really nice person who was doing her best to deal with difficulties in her life.

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2025 11:16

I would never attempt to read an 878 word OP.

Actually I wouldn't attempt to read one longer than about 200 words. Anyone so intellectually lazy and/or arrogant that they can't precis and then develop their argument in later posts (if people seem interested) has defined themself as not being worth reading.

SionnachRuadh · 29/08/2025 11:17

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/08/2025 11:14

In fact, it looks as though the only acting roles Page has had since transitioning are roles in which she plays a trans man (in the Umbrella Academy the female character she played comes out as a trans man), a film she directed and starred in where she also plays a trans man, and a voice only part where she plays a female character.

She can't sustain a long term career only playing trans men, can she?

I expect she can afford not to work again and just live off royalties from previous work, but that's not going to be great for her mental health.

Yes, it's not sustainable.

Lady Marienna (whose new YouTube channel doing radfem film reviews is very good) breaks down EP's written/directed film here:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJpkYXDWU2U

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/08/2025 11:18

BezMills · 29/08/2025 11:16

I am super sympathetic to Elliot Page - I remember her over-emoting stagey hand acting as a young teenager in Trailer Park Boys, and being delighted for her when she got some big roles in hollywood. The story she tells is sadly familiar, traumatic experience of puberty, abuse by trusted adults (the holywood people, not her parents) and seeking to escape from all that by becoming a man. I hope it's working out and she's happier now living as Elliot. I really do. She always came across as a really nice person who was doing her best to deal with difficulties in her life.

I agree with this, but she keeps giving interviews where she looks utterly wretched and miserable as she tells the interviewer all about her trans joy.

Surely no one believes she is happy?

DabOfPistachio · 29/08/2025 11:24

I see OP has done the usual thing of dumping a whole load of vague accusations without any substance to them, then toddled off because he can't defend them.
I think it says a lot about OP's opinion of women that he thinks women have just blindly gone along with JKR's opinion without thinking for ourselves.
I suppose its easier for his ego to think this is about one woman having the 'wrong' opinion rather than masses of women pointing out that his entire belief system has massive holes in it.
And adding that I'm another woman who had grave concerns about the misogyny and homophobia of the trans movement years before JKR spoke out and was ever so pleased when she did.

TakingMyChancesWithTheRabbits · 29/08/2025 11:35

Coming to this very late, but to quote Catherine Tate's "Gran" character, what a load of old shit!

SionnachRuadh · 29/08/2025 11:38

Yes, EP's memoir is not a fun read. Between her trauma history, which I'm afraid is common for child actors, and her very strange relationship with her mother... Well, she was always held up as the nice, sensible young woman while Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears were publicly melting down, and it seems clear she was just bottling things up.

Purely anecdotal, but I've heard from people who worked with her when she was young that she was very nice, but seemed reserved and a bit sad and envious of the girls who got to go back to a normal life.

There needs to be a proper expose on how child actors are treated by the entertainment industry. Look at Drew Barrymore. She's 50 and she's still profoundly fucked up by her experiences. Watch her interview with Dylan Mulvaney were she's literally weeping and then gets on her knees in front of Mulvaney to pay tribute to his stunning bravery. You have never seen anything more pathetic and creepy.

Of course I'm not saying people can't be happy in their trans identity. I sometimes think of when I met the late Rachel Pollack, and Rachel was such an interesting person with so many ideas and interests and enthusiasms that - if this makes sense - after a minute or two you'd forgotten that Rachel was trans.

I can't help thinking that "I'm trans and my personality is trans and my interests are trans" is not a healthy way to go.

Catiette · 29/08/2025 11:48

SnugPeach · 28/08/2025 23:41

Firstly ok thank you for acknowledging that I do experience distress.

Secondly ya I’m very much aware of the hard won rights women have gotten which has taken many years of fighting against an oppressive system that places men on top. Where women are still treated as lesser than men in all aspects of life. Healthcare, Safety, Law. Men are vastly more protected and the system works in a way to benefit them and protect them and their position. So yes I do understand the many fears many of you here have despite what you may think of me.

All I can say is this. I spent years and years, policing myself and my own feelings out of the fear of being seen as what some of you see me as now, a creepy man who wants to infiltrate some women’s space. I did that because I thought it was right. It bought me nothing but sadness, misery and contempt for my own existence. I don’t want to take or redefine anything away from you. I just want to be seen for who I am and included in that.

Thank you for your reply. Everything I've read from you so far (while acknowledging that I have missed some of your posts) has left me far from perceiving you the way you feel you may be perceived by some. Many of the early replies in your own thread seemed apt to me. You sound like a lovely human being who has had an utterly traumatic time, and my heart goes out to you based on that.

Your last paragraph above, set next to my post and your acknowledgement of women's fights, sums up what I sometimes feel is happening here. Clumsy extended metaphor follows. You may realise... I like writing. 😊

The fact is that the war for women's rights continues (and I think the enemy's advancing and regaining lost ground right now - while effective patriarchal campaigning has created a supporting army of well-meaning but confused quislings). Meanwhile, yours is another, separate battle for recognition - whether as a trans person suffering deep-seated dysphoria, and/or as a gender non-conforming autistic person (I agree that society has a way to go in accommodating and embracing both).

The thing is, our fight isn't your fight. And your fight is undermining ours from within, in the most devastating way imaginable. The worst of it is that it has catalysed a fightback from us against a large number of your more fanatical allies and leaders, when we would have preferred to fight alongside you!

To stretch the metaphor to breaking point, I feel as though many trans young people may be the proverbial lions led by donkeys. They clearly have such courage and resolve, and groups like Stonewall etc. - their generals - are misdirecting it. If they'd led you in fighting your own battle, for your own recognition, as trans and proud, with all the dedicated services you need, we'd have joined you in this! And I truly, honestly believe that, if this had been the approach taken, the trans community would be in a better place now in the UK for it. There could be more gender-neutral toilets and services, open to all those content to use them to prevent outing trans users themselves. There'd be more concrete popular support, as opposed to the confusion and fear that can masquerade as such now. There'd certainly be far less focus on and concern about trans individuals' place in society generally. Many of the women posting here have fought for minority rights all their lives, and there was always scope for your acceptance by them - as long as that wasn't contingent on them accepting your rejection of who they are, and their own fight, as part of the deal! Requiring us to wave the white flag of surrender on women's rights was never going to work. How could something so one-sided be expected of us?

And yet, your generals' campaign continues, with organisations such as Stonewall spreading misleading propaganda that teaches trans young people that if they're not accepted as the opposite sex, they are, by definition, hated and feared, when it's actually the ideology itself that is the issue. Most posters here are simply focussed on our own battle campaign against it, to regain our own lost ground of single sex spaces and our very language itself.

Many of us, though, are also frustrated and concerned that young trans footsoldiers are being misled about what their cause is - I'd love it not to be an absolutist denial of the reality of biological sex, but rather simply recognition in their own right - trans and proud!) We worry that they're being misled in who their enemy is - it's not really (or it didn't need be, at any rate) GC feminists, who support gender non-conformity - and have the strategic expertise of generations of feminist warriors in breaking down limiting sex-based expectations! And many Orca Women warriors do also worry that some trans warriors may also be being misled in who they actually are in themselves - they worry about whether trans young people have been swept up by an advancing army that is promising a security and certainty it actually can't give, precisely because it wraps its members in indiscriminate pink and blue flags without respecting them as the unique individuals they are - and that we can see.

AnSolas · 29/08/2025 11:58

Sammybabes16 · 28/08/2025 16:54

In Norway transwomen are classed as women and transmen as men.

you did know this right?

Proof of an equal society needed:

When mummy-to-be and daddy-to-be disagree on baby-to-be's right to exist.

Can daddy-to-be (classed as a man) legally remove baby-to-be's right to exist and not go to jail?

If mummy-to-be is classed as a man, can mummy-to-be legally remove baby-to-be's right to exist and not go to jail?

If mummy-to-be is a man and daddy-to-be is a man please explain why the court treats two men differently.

If daddy-to-be is legally classed as a woman, can daddy-to-be legally prevent mummy-to-be (classed as man) from carrying out any action to remove baby-to-be's right to exist?

Its all equal in Norway so the law treats men and women equally for Womens Rights such as Abortion Rights?

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