Women's 'Private Spaces'

[Howseitgoin]

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

Men do not "belong" in women only facilities. Most women don't like it and don't want it...which is why we have singles sex facilities and why the Supreme Court and the EHRC has backed up the need for them, and the right to them in certain kinds of circumstance.

Sweety it reallllly adds zero to any point you are trying to make.

First you need to prove that in general women are more at risk from men in a work place than any other place.

Here is a help out :

Woman in woods with man and a bear
Woman in work place with man and bear

In which place is the woman more at risk?

And from where will the danger originate from?
(man or bear 🐻)

These " isolated incidents" clearly show the rationale behind having single sex facilities in the first place. It is an obvious safeguarding measure that can easily be implemented.

But it is not just about physical assault it is about pervy and inappropriate behaviour. Women are hard wired to be alert to these behaviours as most women have been subject to them since childhood.

Blimey!

You actually think that a man who politically utilises the horrific incidence of indigenous peoples to discredit the accurately collected statistics of male people's behaviour is a 'gotcha'.

And ummm.... he argues this:

"Another minor point is that prison stats (rather than actual crime stats) are skewed by length of sentence. We’ve already seen that marginalised groups are charged more severely and receive longer sentences for the same crime, which means you’ll count more prisoners at any given moment, for the samenumber of actual crimes."

Well fuck... imagine that.... that 'serious crimes' will have longer fucking sentences! Yes... they do. The same thing is argued for all male prisoners, all male prisoners with serious crime are imprisioned for longer. No shit Sherlock.

This falls under accurate comparisons then... male people with serious crimes get imprisoned for longer whether they have a transgender identity or not. BOTH groups skew the data. Seriously, no fuck eh?

But also, we now have just as much reported incidents of male people with transgender identities getting non-custodial or lighter sentences for their sex crimes. Shall we link these up?

I think that Allsop is not a credible commentator on this issue. We work with the data that we have.

So, @Howseitgoin Would you like to give your number ?

How many additional women and girls being attacked or harmed in anyway in female single sex spaces are acceptable to you before we can expect to exclude ALL male people above the age of 8 years old?

If men really identified with women, rather than as women they would not be so utterly narcissitic and self serving, and they would seek to use an appropriate facility; not impose themselves in such a way. Men who do impose themselves in this way are, by nature, 'wrong un's'. Good men stay out of women's facilities and they understand why.

You do realise that policy and laws usually reflect the needs of the majority of people as well as the needs of the minority of people?

I understand Australian constitutional rights, it is why we have referendums....

Oh.. gosh.. the tyranny of democracy....

The good thing about feminism in general and FWR in particular is that we debate, a lot. And that discussion isnt always agreement in the begining, so we have argued every position with ourselves many times over the years.

TRA and MRA dont have that. They have all agreed that the principle is access to women, and the means to get that is unimportant. They basically are throwing every idea around constantly in the hope something might work.

Because they havent discussed it in depth, they arent prepared for the reality of women knowing the faults in their arguments.

I dont know if Howseitgoin wants single gendered spaces or mixed sex spaces? I suspect they dont care, because their motivation is no woman only spaces.

If you are going to attempt to make a logical or even half assed attempt at using statiatics please use the official data provided by the UK prison system

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmpps-offender-equalities-annual-report-2023-to-2024/hmpps-offender-equalities-report-202324

And can you explain why you think that a woman should as part of a prison term be forced to provide companionship to men?

I suspect it has more to do with them feeling superior and ‘showing up the bigots’.

Their arguments are actually non existent and end up being short sound bites where they pull out something from longer more considered posts. And their links are irrelevant. It is like someone trying to load as many links to a web page as they can for SEO. That is how relevant many of the links are.

There is little thought being put in, it is just reaction. Hence, I don’t believe they were here in good faith to start with.

A clownfish would be fun too 🪸 👀

He also uses a variety of non UK based and completely irrelevant sources to attempt to discredit UK prison data, for example, using evidence that black Americans are more likely to be incarcerated for their crimes than white Americans to suggest that trans women in the UK are more likely to face justice for committing sex crimes than other men.

I mean, what the hell?

Firstly, even if it were true that trans women who commit rape are more likely to go to jail than other men who commit rape, you cannot get away from the fact that trans women can and do commit rape, which is why they must not be treated as a special subcategory of male people who pose no risk to women and to whom normal rules of safeguarding do not apply.

And secondly, if it were true that trans women who commit rape are more likely to go to jail than other men who commit rape, why are rapists falling over themselves to come out as trans at the moment of their arrest and trial for rape? Why are their defence lawyers citing their trans status to argue that they are vulnerable and cannot be held fully responsible for their crimes, and that this should be taken into account by the judge as a mitigating factor when deciding how long their sentence should be and where they will serve it?

The evidence regarding the treatment of trans sex offenders by the UK criminal justice system suggests that not only can we not use evidence about the rate of incarceration of black Americans and extrapolate it to trans people in the UK, but that the very opposite appears to be true.

He also casts doubt on the reliability of the data by pointing out that it doesn't take into account people with a gender recognition certificate.

Yes, you absolute fuckwit. That means that the number of trans women who have been convicted of sex offences in the UK is not lower than the number cited in the prison statistics, but might well be higher.

Surely if providing companionship to the likes of Karen White is part of their punishment, the length of their sentence should be decreased accordingly.

So we’re doing womaning wrong, toileting wrong, and now we’re doing our own language wrong?
That‘s quite some broadcasting you‘re doing there.

Without fail we once again have the same pattern.

The goader / scolder come along with an apparent 'gotcha' and say that we think all transwomen are dangerous pervs. And THEY raise the safety issue.

If we are lucky they go on about safe spaces for transwomen away from gender critical women without irony.

They NEVER EVER address the dignity and privacy issue. It's invisible.

And this failure to address is repeated over and over again.

We are now seeing a lot more discussion of 'stealthy' using the bathroom and I've seen a few conversations this week due to a court case involving a transwoman not being transparent about their sex and the legitimacy of none declaration of trans status.

It's fascinating to see the power and control dynamics and how the removal of consent is, for many, an essential part of upholding their beliefs.

It's not ok and they don't like hearing the word 'no'.

It's is simple as that. No further justification needed.

No we do not want you in certain spaces, we do not consent to it. The end.

Listen pal, your position seems to be that men’s rights and safety should be put ahead of women and children’s rights to safety, privacy and dignity. Just regular men, not intellectually disabled or infirm men, just any man who wants to ‘identify’ as something he’s not.

You’re saying that women should just accept they’re going to be attacked so why bother trying to prevent it, but the men, oh the men need to be protected at all costs, god forbid someone should upset a man!

Take a step back and ask yourself why you hate women so much?

Than whom?
What other groups of men are you comparing transwomen to for your analogy?

Indeed missscarlet.

It is a remarkable piece of fuckwittery.

And it didn't even follow logic. Plus it is out of date. We now have judges who are giving non-custodial sentences to this group of males for their sex crimes.

It is just a bonkers article. But, it reminded me very much of that Erin Reed person and remember, Robin White recommended that we read that piece of fuckwittery as it was 'expert' and 'forensic'. And it was full of falsehoods from statistics malfunctions to false comparators.

It is also false. There are at least two other Australian's on this thread pointing out that no, we don't use 'bathrooms' anywhere near as much as this OP tried to tell us. But then, one state might use it more than others, so who knows - they are not speaking for all of Australia though.

I think that post was a performative bit of work to be fair.

He uncritically quotes “Gemma Stone” aka notorious Twitter troll TRA “CursedE”.

😂😂😂

Here is an archive link to the Allsop medium page.

https://archive.ph/Lpi4w

The content warning is your bullshit bingo card, isn't it?

Handy of him to provide that up front.

There is no relevant data because ‘trans woman’ is a completely subjective concept.

Even if the OP could dig up a study of e.g. 100 transsexuals from 1992, that has no practical relevance to people creating policy in 2025, because the trans umbrella now includes anyone.

Allsop all tries to dilute the rate of male people who identify as being women with the wedging in of 'all male people with transgender identities'. When the stats I posted actually categorise people with NB identities.

His commentary is full of flaws and not even backed by logic.

I'm still trying to work out why the OP considers the perfectly normal word toilet to be vulgar.

There is nothing vulgar about the word toilet, it's literally describing a bowl of water with a device connected to it for flushing and replacing the water.

If the OP has an issue with the fact it's a specific bowl into which one urinates or defecates and thinks those two actions are what makes it vulgar then the OP could probably do with some counselling to get to the route of their squeamishness around normal bodily functions.