What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex?

[FattyMcFattyArse]

I've been pondering this ever since the FWS decision and since I saw an obviously male transperson using the ladies at a service station. I initially froze and wanted to say something, but all my Britishness and female social conditioning made me just mutter under my breath and walk away in disgust.

What would you do?

What have you done?

What is the right thing to do?

They don't belong there, according to the law.

Curious as to how you'd tell the difference? What is it about someone "living as a woman" vs a man that likes dresses and lipstick that would help you identify which one you'd be seeing in the changing room?

It means considering themself a woman and living as such, so meeting in the toilets would be exactly the same as meeting someone who'd been born a woman and not worth a second glance or moment of concern.

Do you mean post surgery?

Is no one on here even remotely worried about how the trans woman would potentially feel unsafe being forced into using a male toilet?

'living as such' - sorry, still not following. Living as how?

Is no one on here even remotely worried about how the trans woman would potentially feel unsafe being forced into using a male toilet?

why would the solution be to force ladies to accept a man in their space?

@Rasell How on earth do you think you would tell the difference between these two types of male?!

Do you think you can tell by looking at their clothing choices?

Or are you perhaps going to ask: ‘Do you live as a woman or do you live as a man who likes lipstick and dresses?’

Do you not see any issues with this strategy? 😂

What does ‘live as a woman’ mean?

I’d say you’re right about one thing and that is that you are indeed struggling to get your head around all of this.

But no one is. But every human has a right to feel safe. Look at it from the other side, you’d be happy for a trans man to be using the female toilet just because you don’t consider their transition to be valid either?

Not really, no. I obviously would much prefer it if no one ever felt unsafe anywhere, but men feeling unsafe in men’s spaces is not a problem I can do a single thing to solve.

Yes that’s right. Transmen are female and therefore entitled to use spaces for women.

If someone is born a man but feels they should be a woman and considers themself a woman, why would they use mens toilets? What should they do?
What I'm trying to say is that if it's a masculine looking woman, it's still a woman and should be able to use the womens toilets...what would happen in the mens?! If its literally a bloke wearing lipstick, I'd be more concerned. I don't believe a transgender woman poses any threat. I don't know if you can always tell the difference, it's all very blurred.

How do you know they’re not hurting anyone? What I’d them using female spaces makes women uncomfortable? Or do women’s feelings not count. If you’re so happy sharing spaces with males, crack on and use unisex spaces . Why are you so determined to make all spaces mixed sex?

Who has said that all transwomen are secretly predatory men?

Can you quote the post for me please?
Thankyou

Nope. Not one iota. Why should I care about a males feelings?

There are lots of men with lots of vulnerabilities who may have genuine concerns about using a public toilet. I gave an example upthread.

They don't get a special pass allowing them to use the ladies. Women's facilities are there to meet the needs of women, not to be a refuge for vulnerable men. (We rightly make an exception for very young boys with their mother or female carer.)

Nobody has yet given an answer as to why this particular subset of males has to be given access to female facilities, except that they really want it.

And once you let in some males, then you open the door to all males, with any agenda, because we can't tell at a glance the good men from the bad men.

But how could you tell? Most of you would just see a man walking into the women’s loos.

But they are not a woman! They are intact males who have male lived experience and Male Privilege and gone through male puberty with all the advantages that brings.

They are MALES. In every single way.

And their presence traumatises women and girls.

All men know they are men Even if they really want to be women.

They don't change sex.

They must not use women's facilities..

If a group of male people feel unsafe in the male single sex provisions in the UK, the answer is not to allow them into the female provisions where they can cause distress and harm to female people.

If a group of male people feel unsafe, then there are other options.

For instance they should do what the female people with transgender identities in the UK who take testosterone do and work together to communicate where alternative solutions are so that they can plan their trips away from their own home. We know female people with transgender identities who take testosterone do this, they tell us on threads on this very board.

I would certainly recommend that a public campaign to make male single sex spaces safer for ALL male people is commissioned by as many organisations as it takes to make achieve safety. If safety in male single sex toilets was such an issue at this time, where is this public campaign? There would be funding from many sources to make this happen.

Also, where are the statistics that support the additional safeguarding measure to create a special space just for this group of male people away from all other just as vulnerable male people and all other male people.

The statistics for this sub group of male people, those with transgender identities, show clearly that they are still being convicted for sex and violent crime at a rate that can be said to be at least that of the general male population of the UK.

There are NO statistics that show that this sub group of male people commit sex and violent crime that is less than that of the general population of female people in the UK. But it is, to be blunt, irrelevant because female people need to have, and it is a human right to have, privacy and dignity away from male people. All male people when needed, and toileting is one of those instances.

Pleas for women to be concerned about where any male person who rejects the single sex space that organisations have provided as per the expectations under human rights provisions is really just adding to the burden of female people. This was always an issue for male people to sort out.

You don't seem to be aware of autogynephilia. You may wish to change your mind about how you feel about sharing women's spaces.

WHY is males feeling unsafe around other males, WOMENS PROBLEM TO SOLVE, @Blueysotheemother ? Women and girls are not human shields for males. We advocated third spaces for years. They said no.

It was never about 'safety'. Only about VALIDATION and using women around them as props. If it were about safety, they would advocate for third spaces. There is less than zero evidence transwomen are not safe in the males. On the contrary.

Won't somebody, anybody, think of the men? The patriarchy has really done a number on too many women.

"Do you live as a woman or do you live as a man who likes lipstick and dresses?’"

I'll add that to the checklist! It's going to be a tad long I'm afraid for anyone who really needs to go...

Female people are highly likely to correctly identify the sex of a human. Particularly male humans. It has nothing to do with lipstick. It has to do with the body cues such as skeletal proportions, gait, hip alignment, facial proportions, even skull shape.

If you personally cannot tell the difference, please do not assume your inability is the universal experience. Just because you cannot tell, why the fuck should any female person (even toddlers can reliably tell) be harmed because you feel that you cannot tell the difference?

And no. 'Masculine' looking female people are still female people. Please stop weaponising other female people to leverage male people to have access to female single sex spaces.