Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

World boxing introduces mandated testing

171 replies

impossibletoday · 20/08/2025 17:19

https://x.com/RealWorldBoxing/status/1958144619079770572?t=qA9DJpJw1sKHL9tVlI32Gg&s=19

Mandatory.........

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Helleofabore · 21/08/2025 17:21

SirBasil · 21/08/2025 17:14

but by medical people, with few others in the room, and not under floodlights in a boxing ring.

Boxers, weigh in in their underwear. They train to the nth degree and every inch of their body is under scrutiny. One more medical exam is probably neither here nor there.

Absolutely by medical people.

I agree that no athlete should be subjected ever again to being reported by coaches, other athletes etc to be tested. It was always the fairest way to have everyone tested and do it early.

Imperativvv · 21/08/2025 17:27

For anyone who's not already seen them, the rules about what urine testing involves are at page 17.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/WADA_Guidelines_Urine_Sample_Collection_v5.1_EN.pdf

The athlete has to remove all clothing between waist and mid thigh, and the witness needs to see the urine leave the body. So high level sport already inherently involves some other people seeing your genitals. Everyone currently competing in any WADA compliant sporting category has already signed up for that.

Interestingly, the guidance says the tester should be of the same gender as the athlete being tested. Not sex. I'd love to know how that's interpreted.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/WADA_Guidelines_Urine_Sample_Collection_v5.1_EN.pdf

JamieCannister · 21/08/2025 17:36

SirBasil · 21/08/2025 17:14

but by medical people, with few others in the room, and not under floodlights in a boxing ring.

Boxers, weigh in in their underwear. They train to the nth degree and every inch of their body is under scrutiny. One more medical exam is probably neither here nor there.

I've seen footage of a (male) boxer stripping COMPLETELY on stage, behind a towel being held by two glamourous young women, because he was coming in a few grams over the required weight.

usedtobeaylis · 21/08/2025 18:19

Helleofabore · 21/08/2025 17:21

Absolutely by medical people.

I agree that no athlete should be subjected ever again to being reported by coaches, other athletes etc to be tested. It was always the fairest way to have everyone tested and do it early.

I agree. I don't understand why people are saying women will suffer because of this and especially black women. They have suffered due to the lack of testing, whether that's been by speculation or by having DSDs go undetected for decades. We clearly can't run women's sport on trust.

Imperativvv · 21/08/2025 18:24

usedtobeaylis · 21/08/2025 18:19

I agree. I don't understand why people are saying women will suffer because of this and especially black women. They have suffered due to the lack of testing, whether that's been by speculation or by having DSDs go undetected for decades. We clearly can't run women's sport on trust.

The people making those arguments generally care much more about the ethnicity of the XYs than the women whose spots they're taking. Hence Caster Semenya's blackness outranks Halimah Nakaayi's, for example. It's important that Imane Khelif isn't white, but not that Yang Liu equally isn't.

Bonus points when the people coming out with this shit are themselves white.

Helleofabore · 21/08/2025 18:54

usedtobeaylis · 21/08/2025 18:19

I agree. I don't understand why people are saying women will suffer because of this and especially black women. They have suffered due to the lack of testing, whether that's been by speculation or by having DSDs go undetected for decades. We clearly can't run women's sport on trust.

Yes. When they make these arguments they forget that all female athletes are going to tested. Plus that female athletes were directly excluded to include each and every one of these male athletes with DSDs.

This could be helpful to remember. it tracks male athletes entered as transgender but the displacement calculation would be the same I expect.

AN ANALYSIS ON HOW JUST A FEW MALE PEOPLE CAN CAUSE HARM TO MANY FEMALE ATHLETES - THE FALSITY OF 'JUST ONE'

hecheatedorg

18th March 2025
To analyze performance differences between "trans"-identified male and actual female participants in girls' sport, we need look no further than girls' high school track and field.
Track and field provides the clearest data as it is an individual sport and has had the highest number of recorded male participants to date at the high school level.

There are a total of 37 male athletes on record who have participated in girls' high school track and field in the United States.

Of these 37, one athlete participated in only one race due to the cancellation of the season during the COVID 19 pandemic. Another athlete participated in a tech/private school league that did not participate in a state championship.

These two athletes will be excluded from the data.

Out of 1,276 completed events, male athletes finished as follows:
1st place: 440 (34%)
2nd place: 188 (15%)
3rd place: 123 (10%)
Other: 485 (41%)

Male athletes came in 1st 34% of the time, only 7% less often than they did than any other place outside the top 3.

They finished in the top three in 59% of their events and outside the top eight in only 19% of their events.
24 of the 35 male athletes (68%) qualified for their respective State Championship meet in a total of 136 events.

When looking at athletes competing against same-sex peers, depending on the state and division of competition, anywhere from 5 to 15% of athletes are expected to qualify.

For example in states that use regional-sectional qualification, the top 4 finishers at a regional meet (often with 2 heats of 8 runners each) qualify for the sectional meet where the top 4 finishers at the sectional then advance to State. This means that out of 32 runners at regionals, only 4 (12.5%) will advance to State.

This number also does not take into account the fact that only the best runners on a team will be entered in a regional meet and often the same runner will qualify in multiple events. A runner may also have a higher chance of qualifying in a relay as 8 runners (top 2 teams) advance to state rather than 4 in this type of qualification.

In other types of qualification or less competitive, smaller regions, it may be easier to qualify.

At the State Championship meet, there are typically 24 entries in each event. 1 of the 24 will win, meaning 4% of the 15% of athletes who have qualified for state will be a state champion, or 0.6%.

Of the 24 male athletes who qualified for state against girls, 11 of them (46%) have won a state championship title, or 31% of the total.

4 of the 35 male athletes (11%) have also achieved a top 10 national ranking.

The percentage of male athletes who have been in the top 10 of all track and field athletes in the female division in the entire nation is higher than the percentage of female athletes who have won a state title.
To find the percentage of female athletes who are in the top 10, we can take the 57 indoor and outdoor events ranked on milesplit. com multiplied by 10 (10 athletes in each) then divide by the total number of female athletes in high school track and field - 506,015 (according to nfhs. org).

This number does not take into account the fact that many athletes in the top 10 appear there in multiple events and several of the 57 events are less commonly run. (All 4 male athletes in the top 10 achieved that placement in a main event).

This means less than 0.11 percent of female athletes achieve a top 10 ranking.

"But not all states require hormone therapy!"

It is true that some states do not require males to undergo any sort of testosterone suppression or medical intervention in order to compete against girls.

We can therefore, look to the athletes who have reportedly begun "identifying" as the opposite sex and undergone "medical interventions" prior to puberty or in early middle school as it has been proposed that males who do so are in line with "average female performance."
There are 3 athletes who have reportedly "transitioned" prior to puberty. Based on their feminized appearances and high voices, we can infer this included puberty blockers.

All 3 athletes qualified for the state championship meet, 2 of the athletes were conference champions, and one athletes was not only a state champion and New England champion, but he was ranked in the national top 10.

None of these performances are in line with an "average" athlete. In fact, the national ranking out of three athletes is statistically unlikely to the point of being impossible without an athletic advantage.
"But you just know about the athletes who are good. There could be more you don't hear about because they don't win anything."
When we look at the expected percentages, we can see that about 6 out of 1,000 athletes win state and 1 out of 1,000 are in the top 10 national ranking.

In order to see the 24 males as state champions and 4 males in the top 10, there should be around 4,000 males who have competed in the girls' division in track and field. (3,965 additional athletes, none of whom can have won a state title).
There have been 37 on record.
Numerous state senators and legislators have come forward testifying to the number of "trans"-identifying males participating in their states.

When these legislators testify that there have "only been 2" in the state, or in the case of Ohio, 17 athletes in 8 years, and these numbers include all sports, and when male athletes have been banned from participating in girls' sports in about half of the states in the nation, it is not likely that there are an additional 3,963 male athletes that not only does nobody know about, but who also have not won a single state title.

In regards to the prepubescent "transitioners," there should be an additional 1,000 of them who have not won a state title or achieved a top 10 ranking. This is also highly unlikely, as we've seen multiple prepubescent "transitioners" in other sports also winning national and state championship titles.
Male participation in the female division is not just unfair, it is blatantly so.

These percentages do not reflect the cost to the female athletes behind them. Just 2 male athletes in cross country and track and field in Maine have negatively impacted over 2,000 female athletes.

If each male athlete negatively impacted 500 female on average, that means over 18,500 female high school track and field athletes in the United States have been forced to compete against and have been negatively impacted by these boys.
This includes loss of titles, loss of medals, loss of relay spots, loss of entries in large meets, loss of qualifications for championships, loss of records, loss of privacy, and loss of confidence.

*2 male athletes in Maine negatively impacted over 1,600 girls
3 boys in Washington, over 2,000

fromorbit · 22/08/2025 08:52

Imperativvv · 21/08/2025 21:28

Lin Yu-ting apparently is planning to take a test.

https://firstdaily.ng/taiwanese-boxer-lin-yu-ting-submits-to-gender-test-ahead-of-world-championships/

Be interesting to see if that happens.

Important moment. People are going to look at the point where people were actually letting men fight women with horror.

Wonderknicks · 22/08/2025 09:05

How reliable will the tests be when done by the athlete's own country? I wonder what controls are in place?

SidewaysOtter · 22/08/2025 09:12

Wonderknicks · 22/08/2025 09:05

How reliable will the tests be when done by the athlete's own country? I wonder what controls are in place?

I should imagine, like urine testing, that it’s done to strict rules set by the regulating body, if not done by their own officials. When there’s testing under the sport I compete in, the testing is done by officials from the professional body who arrive for that purpose.

SidewaysOtter · 22/08/2025 09:12

Wonderknicks · 22/08/2025 09:05

How reliable will the tests be when done by the athlete's own country? I wonder what controls are in place?

Duplicate post!

Wonderknicks · 22/08/2025 11:13

Under the new policy, National Federations will be responsible for testing and will be required to confirm the sex of their athletes when entering them into World Boxing competitions by providing a certification of their chromosomal sex, as determined by a PCR test.
The National Federations will be responsible for it.

StellaAndCrow · 22/08/2025 11:34

MyAmpleSheep · 21/08/2025 15:25

it's a difficult situation for that tiny minority of people whose sex is genuinely ambiguous.

Not withstanding that nobody's sex is genuinely ambiguous if they care to look into it, why is it "genuinely difficult"? If you always believed you were a woman and later find out you're not, when you find out, you stop competing in women's competitions.

Yes, Erik Schinegger did this. He had a DSD, was raised as a girl and successfully competed in women's skiing events. Medical testing then revealed he was male - he handed back the medal he had won as a woman.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Schinegger

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/08/2025 16:50

I see the Taiwanese boxer also excluded by the IBA for failing a gender test is to submit to testing. That should be interesting…

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/08/2025 17:19

And in what won’t be a shock to anyone Imane Khelif has hung up his boxing gloves. 🤭

https://x.com/rmcsport/status/1958095912913281404?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdyQ

Helleofabore · 22/08/2025 17:29

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/08/2025 17:19

And in what won’t be a shock to anyone Imane Khelif has hung up his boxing gloves. 🤭

https://x.com/rmcsport/status/1958095912913281404?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdyQ

I saw that Khelif has made a statement that Nasser Yefsah was wrong and that Khelif has not 'retired' at all.

I will go and find the statement.

Helleofabore · 22/08/2025 17:31

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-15022711/Olympic-champion-Imane-Khelif-gender-row-World-Championships.html

https://archive.ph/gXLPH

This is the response

"Olympic champion boxer Imane Khelif insists she has not retired, accusing her former manager of 'betrayal' after he falsely claimed she had called it a day. "

and

"Following her ex-manager's comments, Khelif wrote on Facebook: 'I would like to make it clear to the public that the reports of my retirement from boxing are false.

She then said Yesfah had 'betrayed (her) trust and (her) country with his false and malicious statements'.

'This person no longer represents me in any way,' she said.

'I have never announced my retirement from boxing. I remain committed to my sporting career, I train regularly and I maintain my physical condition between Algeria and Qatar in preparation for upcoming events.' "

Gender row boxer Imane Khelif responds to retirement claims

Khelif was one of two boxers at the centre of a gender eligibility storm at last year's Paris 2024 Olympics . The other was Lin Yu-ting who will be competing at the World Championships.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-15022711/Olympic-champion-Imane-Khelif-gender-row-World-Championships.html

puffyisgood · 22/08/2025 19:35

Imperativvv · 21/08/2025 21:28

Lin Yu-ting apparently is planning to take a test.

https://firstdaily.ng/taiwanese-boxer-lin-yu-ting-submits-to-gender-test-ahead-of-world-championships/

Be interesting to see if that happens.

interesting. it would seem very odd that, if there were any real expectation of passing, that an on-the-spot test wasn't done during the Olympics, just to silence all the naysayers. i suppose the candidate explanations might be: (i) there's hope that this might be a borderline case, such as PAIS - enough hope to make it worth taking a test now but little enough to justify muddying the waters during the Olympics when the IOC was happy to accept a passport or whatever; or (ii) the IOC weren't keen for such a test to be undertaken because it'd put pressure on khelif, who presumably wouldn't have had a prayer of testing female, to do the same.

Hadalifeonce · 22/08/2025 19:41

I saw an article some time ago, apparently all women athletes used to have cheek swabs done to check their sex. When this was withdrawn, something like 86% of women wanted it retained, but obviously that didn't happen

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/08/2025 23:36

Helleofabore · 22/08/2025 17:31

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-15022711/Olympic-champion-Imane-Khelif-gender-row-World-Championships.html

https://archive.ph/gXLPH

This is the response

"Olympic champion boxer Imane Khelif insists she has not retired, accusing her former manager of 'betrayal' after he falsely claimed she had called it a day. "

and

"Following her ex-manager's comments, Khelif wrote on Facebook: 'I would like to make it clear to the public that the reports of my retirement from boxing are false.

She then said Yesfah had 'betrayed (her) trust and (her) country with his false and malicious statements'.

'This person no longer represents me in any way,' she said.

'I have never announced my retirement from boxing. I remain committed to my sporting career, I train regularly and I maintain my physical condition between Algeria and Qatar in preparation for upcoming events.' "

Edited

Oh. Interesting. 🤔

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2025 09:40

Best take the test then, Imane, prove us all wrong.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2025 09:42

Hadalifeonce · 22/08/2025 19:41

I saw an article some time ago, apparently all women athletes used to have cheek swabs done to check their sex. When this was withdrawn, something like 86% of women wanted it retained, but obviously that didn't happen

Yes, and when genderists talk about it they ignore this and wang on about how awful and degrading it was for “cis women”.

SirBasil · 23/08/2025 10:03

i do wonder how they find the urine testing though?

thirdfiddle · 23/08/2025 10:13

If the algerian boxing federation (or whatever they're called) says they've checked and Khelif is female, would anyone believe them? I'm concerned. They've already staked their reputation. Are they really going to say oops, our mistake, actually he's a man?

RedToothBrush · 23/08/2025 10:32

thirdfiddle · 23/08/2025 10:13

If the algerian boxing federation (or whatever they're called) says they've checked and Khelif is female, would anyone believe them? I'm concerned. They've already staked their reputation. Are they really going to say oops, our mistake, actually he's a man?

It doesn't matter what they say.

There's a clear concern here at this point.

World Boxing has to deal with the concerns of other entrants and they will be liable if a male is allowed to enter and a woman is harmed.

Thus if Algeria say he's a woman, they will have to intervene and do third party testing and deal with whatever tantrum Algeria come up with.

In some ways Khelif has zero other options. To admit to being a man undermines everything he's done and he is unlikely to be accepted in Algeria anyway due to prejudices.

Khelif has been used and will be the ultimate victim of the people around him who did know.