World boxing introduces mandated testing

[impossibletoday]

https://x.com/RealWorldBoxing/status/1958144619079770572?t=qA9DJpJw1sKHL9tVlI32Gg&s=19

Mandatory.........

Anatomical examination could mean scans to detect testes or ovaries

the point is, it isn'T going to be carried out on a) huge numbers of people and b) in a public setting.

It is, in fact, the cost of wanting to do sport in a women's category.

And so, distasteful as it may be to a very small minority of people - it is worth it to save women's sports. Or not?

You have misunderstood me - I was just pointing out something that might be used as 'justification' for TRAs to compare with 'parading naked'.

Did you read my post at 10.43? I think it gave a clear indication of where I stand on men in women's sports, so I don't know why you think
'Or would you prefer that women's sports remain a free-for-all?' !

I wonder what the people who watch him do his urine tests for doping make of all this?

Have you any evidence of women seeking entry into the male category?

If you have then have you any evidence that any woman has proven herself to the extent that she would be accepted into a male tournament?

it's a difficult situation for that tiny minority of people whose sex is genuinely ambiguous.

Not withstanding that nobody's sex is genuinely ambiguous if they care to look into it, why is it "genuinely difficult"? If you always believed you were a woman and later find out you're not, when you find out, you stop competing in women's competitions.

Presumably anyone who has the male "Y" chromosome and doesn't want to be paraded naked can withdraw their application to be in female sports?

If someone with the male "Y" chromosome has a genuine female-specific DSD then presumably they will have had all sorts of invasive sex-related examinations anyway, and they can opt to take another one in order to ensure that they get to enjoy the privilege of competing in high level sport.

It’s not just about “unexplained infertility” it would mean that you have never had a period, and it’s likely investigations would be done.

Chris Mosier - triathlete, duathlete, and racewalker.
Patricio Manuel - boxer
Schuyler Bailar - swimmer

‘Khelif had been due to compete in a World Boxing tournament in the Netherlands in June, but opted to skip it shortly after the governing body initially announced its plans to introduce sex testing for all boxers in its competitions.‘

Think he’s starting male pattern baldness here as well.

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2612518/amp

..a return to the bad old days of parading naked before a medical panel etc etc.,...

You do know that the most common test for drugs involves a tester observing the urine stream going from the body of the person being tested into the container, don't you? To prevent tampering, obviously.

have men requested these women be stopped from entering? are they hoovering up the wins?

tbh, if men asked for that i'd support them. I would also support, however, the men's category being reclassified as "open" in any sport where they are separated by sex, and the women's being ringfenced for women. No men.

@MarieDeGournay i was merely pointing it out, since i probably missed what you said, that nobody is going to be humiliated or paraded.

If I remember correctly, Dr Ioannis Filippatos said during the Paris Olympics that part of the testing they did of Khelif and Lin was reviewing the masculinisation of their bodies. I expect that includes reviewing skeleton, musculature, fat distribution etc. He was clear that this was part of the review process to identify whether testosterone was being processed.

I would expect that falls under anatomical assessment and would require being naked.

Yeah, probably, but maybe not until you're in your late teens/early twenties. Don't forget it's fairly common for top tier female athletes to lose their periods so investigations might be delayed by assuming it's due to training volume from a young age.
By the time you find out you're probably in the middle of your sporting career and it'll be a big and very unpleasant surprise. You probably got picked on as a teenager for being "manly". You're probably really proud of your success and hard work. You might be relatively famous in your hometown. All of a sudden everyone is talking about how you were actually a man all along, you're accused of cheating, you can't play your sport anymore, people online think you have a penis.
Whether you should be allowed or not in women's sport is another question. It's just a really shit situation to find yourself in.

I really doubt any high level athlete isn't getting investigations until their early 20s.

I suspect that the instance of not showing any signs of puberty by the time a girl is 14 or 15 is very rare. And if no breast development or spotting has started at all, then that girl needs to be properly checked.

I think that the prevalence of delayed periods is overplayed by some people. Sure periods might be disrupted, however there will be signs of puberty.

I have known very dedicated female elite swimmers and despite their training they showed signs of puberty. So too ballet dancers and gymnasts. It seems that this aspect is exaggerated.

You might be right. I guess I'm imagining someone from a middle income/developing country who's competing professionally but not successful enough to be part of the national team/making very much money. Maybe I'm just stereotyping and it would be flagged up and investigated for someone like that.

Surprised.

Quick google and Mosier competed in a 36-39 age category.

Manuel won 3/4 fights (the first being against a man who lost 8 of 9 fights he fought over a 10 year period).

Geuninely surprised that this small intrusion of women completely unwanted into men's sports is so large. I thought it would be zero

I think "women are allowed their own things" is as good a reason to have women only sports, changing rooms and language as "safety, privacy and dignity" are.

I think men have an equal right to their own things as women do, even if the practical necessity is lower.

In such a circumstance (such an unlikely circumstance, not knowing your sex until your 20s) surely the only way you could make your "shit situation" worse is to continue to demand to play in the sporting category you were never entitled to enter, thus attracting more and more justified hate?

Also, I note bad things happen in life, and we can't keep everyone happy. Best we can do is what is right and fair.

In the linked article they say they will be doing it in the male category as well; they are just doing it in the female category first.

If it would take a while to get everyone tested, it makes sense to bring this in for the female category first. Any female who wanted to compete in the male category would be choosing to do so when it is themselves who are put at risk and a disadvantage. Whereas if males compete in the female category, it is their opponents who are put at risk.

https://worldboxing.org/world-boxing-confirms-mandatory-sex-testing-will-apply-in-the-female-category-at-the-inaugural-world-boxing-championships-2025/

"Under the policy, World Boxing will operate two categories as determined by sex: a men’s category and a women’s category. To be eligible for the men’s category, a competitor must be male at birth. To be eligible for the women’s category, a competitor must be female at birth. [...]

World Boxing’s decision to prioritise testing in the female category is based on a recognition that the issues of safety and sporting integrity in relation to eligibility are most pronounced in women’s boxing. Testing will be applied for boxers in the male category at all World Boxing competitions from 1 January 2026."

There are people in the world who have no access to modern medical care, so I agree that may include some who were assume female due to their genitals, then have no female puberty symptoms by their early 20s without any way of getting proper testing. But to compete as a professional boxer, you need at least some resources. Even one who hasn't got that much money would need access to training facilities and personnel, kit, travel expenses. In many lower and middle income countries, this is even harder for women than men.

Basically, I don't see how there's a space where a woman/someone seen as a woman has access to everything she needs to become a professional boxer of the level we're discussing, whilst simultaneously getting so little medical input that the lack of periods doesn't come up before her early 20s.

but by medical people, with few others in the room, and not under floodlights in a boxing ring.

Boxers, weigh in in their underwear. They train to the nth degree and every inch of their body is under scrutiny. One more medical exam is probably neither here nor there.

I really suspect that this below is a story that gets pushed hard.

"By the time you find out you're probably in the middle of your sporting career and it'll be a big and very unpleasant surprise. You probably got picked on as a teenager for being "manly". You're probably really proud of your success and hard work. You might be relatively famous in your hometown. All of a sudden everyone is talking about how you were actually a man all along, you're accused of cheating, you can't play your sport anymore, people online think you have a penis."

In Caster Semenya's life, Semenya has photos of swimming in male swimming trunks without a top with all Semenya's teenaged male friends. I believe that there are no photos of Khelif released except for photos from being about pre-school age.

The chances in this modern era of a person with a masculinising DSD not being assessed for lack of female puberty when male pubertal signs have started showing instead is going to be very very rare. If it happens how at all. The knowledge of 5ARD seems well known even in impoverished countries.

And remember, a person without the ability to process testosterone or one that might have streak testes that don't produce testosterone, are likely to be included in sports still. That will be where the further checks come in to assess for masculinisation.

And if a person who has testes but cannot process the testosterone they produce discovers they have testes, it will be very beneficial for them to know this so they can get checked. Because those testes might need removing / monitoring.

Either way, the compassionate way to deal with these discoveries is to test athletes as young as possible, well before they start to be well known.

I'm glad they're prioritising the female category.