Single sex spaces

[piloswi]

I’m confused with single sex spaces and trans people and what people want.

My understanding is everyone must use the single sex space of their biological sex (I might be wrong). This is only spoken about in terms of trans women now having to use men’s toilets, etc. But this means trans men must use women’s toilets. So someone who looks like a man but biologically isn’t but mostly (imo) you can’t really tell with trans men whereas you often can with trans women.

Is this what the majority want? Surely if people are worried about ‘predatory men’ pretending to be a trans woman to use single sex spaces then they could equally claim to be a trans man as you can’t really ask them to prove it can you?

I guess I’m just wondering if I’m missing the point the point? Are the majority happy with this? I’ve seen posts of people being very happy with the ruling but only have spoken about trans women.

I don’t want this to be a trans bashing thread. Just would like to know what people would like to see as their ideal for single sex spaces while still respecting people

If trans women (who are male) don't want to share a bathroom with men, then why the hell would you think that any biological woman would want to?

And yes. Even the trans people that are in my life have some negative impact on others. Even though they don’t intend to.

Please tell us why someone’s philosophical belief about themselves that doesn’t reflect material reality should be supported by changes in society such as access to single sex provisions not meant for them and language ? Can you tell us what other philosophical beliefs get this special treatment where society is expected to fully support that belief?

So, you cannot answer questions about your own beliefs and just wanted to shame others?

Ok. Good to know.

oh come on, trans men are still women and I’d argue are safer using female spaces, you don’t hear much from trans men on this whole subject really, it’s the men who are stamping their feet

no men have vaginas either hth

Thats not a vagina. It's an open wound. Don't use incorrect terms for things.

Also - a man without a penis, is still a man.

The point is you are supposed to change people's minds! Bring an argument! Make the case! We want to hear it!!

Don't just say 'oh you're all so nasty' and run off!

It is incredible that some people have been led to believe that calling a blind cavity surgically inserted into a male groin is in any way a ‘vagina’.

That is seriously misogynistic. It dismisses the functions of a vagina except for one. It reduces a vagina to a fuckable hole.

Imagine posting supporting that vaginas are just fuckable holes on a feminist board.

"indistinguishable"

<Rolls eyes>

Yes I for one would choose to share a changing room/toilet etc with a trans man rather than a trans woman because

1. trans men are women
2. cases of women sexually assaulting other women are virtually unheard of
3. if a trans man decided to attack me they are likely to be a similar size to me so I have a fair chance of fighting them off

The transmen I know are obviously female. Most of them are, even when they have stubble/beards. They are generally shorter, have narrow shoulders and walk with a female pelvis. I am happy to share spaces with them because they are female.

But, regardless of what I think, those transmen themselves have told me that they prefer to use female or gender neutral facilities. They don't want to use the mens.

A solid argument would change people's minds. But there isn't one.

I am tired too and so are a lot of other women. Tired of having to justify our spaces.

Make up, clothes, hormones and extreme surgery do not alter the underlying anatomy. Women tend to be very accurate sexing someone based in their outline or how they walk - it’s a necessary survival instinct.

Not as tired as we are of this nonsense.

Well, you seem to be tired as you are using tired old trope to support your position.

Do you think maybe you could take the time to use logic and fact based evidence to support your position? Rather than philosophical theory and emotional reasoning / manipulation?

Do you understand for instance how misogynistic it is to call a cavity inserted into male person’s groin a vagina when it only serves the purpose of being or resembling a fuckhole ? You are posting on a feminist board, do you think you can address the misogynistic view you just posted?

People should use single sex spaces aligned to their sex.

Regarding the Trans Men red herring, I am of course quite happy for another women, regardless of how she chooses to present, to use women’s spaces.

In my experience up close it’s not difficult to tell who is a woman, based on physical size, gait, and skin.

A woman with a beard, still mostly looks like a woman IRL.

A particularly tall, gender non conforming woman, might get a second glance, but that is usually enough to correctly identify her sex.

Transmen are men, transwomen are women

The highest court in the land said otherwise. Keep up.

Not too tired to repeat the lie on an M&S thread that the person who approached the 14 year old was not trans just tall though, right?

We are here for you. Tell us why women should allow men who claim to be women in their single sex spaces.

“what if they've had bottom surgery (they have a vagina), HRT and are indistinguishable from a cis woman?”

Here is the misogyny again.

Just because a male person has breasts derived from HRT, a surgically inserted blind cavity in their groin, opted to get their penis and testicles removed and take large quantities of estrogen and maybe even some progesterone, they are indistinguishable from female people ?

well… for a start.. thanks to all the ‘moon’ protests, those male breasts look like breasts development on a male body. Just growing breasts doesn’t make them indistinguishable from female bodies.

It is like some people really don’t understand physiology but post crap like this to support their beliefs.

Are you on glue?

are you seriously comparing female genital surgery to men electing to chop off their dicks and create a hole?

If people reliably passed as the opposite sex, single sex services would never have got off the ground.

If TW passed and no one knows they are male, they wouldnt be making a fuss about this ruling, they'd just stay quiet and carry on using female spaces.

They wouldn't be talking about women who want to be men, or tall women, or men pretending to be women who want to be men. Or the concept of 'living as a woman '.

But they have to talk whataboutary because they know they stand out, because of the way they look, or act.

The blind hole is not even in the same place as a vagina!