Misinformation correction: M&S Staff

[BeeSourianteAgain]

M&S have responded to people's enquiries, here's one:

https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f

As expected the staff member was just doing their job, something that happens thousands of times a day in shops all over the country.

As per normal, the trans panic was manufactured.

I fully expect all the GCs and media pundits who were pushing all sorts of hate to apologise, but as a person on their second LGBTQ moral panic I know very well how it goes.

I hope somebody has warned the Aberdeen M&S bra fitters in advance so that they can all be unexpectedly unavailable.

Can't spell seethe, either, the unpleasant man. If you're going to snark at JK, you need to make sure you're on point.

"Sophie" is mentally ill, I reckon.

Catching up and miles behind but to add to this… how about looking at this with a comparator? How many dads would put themselves into the situation of speaking to their own 14 year old daughters about their underwear?! “Run a mile” more likely maybe?

I'd guess that a single dad in that position would be looking around desperately to see if there's an aunt or grandmother or female friend who could have that conversation instead, and he'd only do it himself if there's absolutely no other option.

of course. I didn’t even think of that. But yes, they do like to think they have experienced female ‘puberty’.

I will bet that M&S have has a number of these type of bookings which in effect are only being made to harrass female staff who have nothing to so with the original incident. Some of whom may have no issue some of whom may have an issue.

Management across the land may now have to deal with female staff refusing to carry out an appointment as its a man and a creepy one at that. So that BS is an own goal as it will push M&S to look at the legal obligations they have to staff and bad PR. An ET over refusing to fit a man who the woman believed was sexually abusing her is not were M&S should ever want to end up.

He's promised plenty of photos, which of course is standard for a bra fitting. Nothing to do with fulfilling a fetish or owt.

🤮

"Put them in the wash basket"

"DAD ! OMG !! YOU !!! YOOOU wash my ....."

"Yes and if you put them in the wash like you have been told a million times before we will never have to discuss this again."

And that Dear Reader is when she realised she needed to help with the laundry 😉

From what he has already posted freely, theres not much that requires a bra so it's just harassing the female staff and getting his rocks off that he's after.

I really hope M&S step in to protect their staff from this pervert

Anyone booked a trip to somewhere in Spain lately?

Ah yes.

Way to prove a point. And not necessarily the one they think.

I would suggest that M&S employee a man who identifies as a woman to fit men who identify as women. But then you are going to really get into the mire of how can you tell?

They are going to have to bite the bloody bullet and say if a man wants to be bra fitted, he needs to take it to men's changing room. And have one man trained specifically for that. In the men's.

Actually, this just isn't going to stop is it. Every pervy activist is going to push as many boundaries as they possibly can.

M amd S are going to have to invoke the SSEs, like Bravissimo, and say the bra fitting is by and for women only.

We know at least one M&S store has a male staff member who is interested in helping customers who are shopping for bras, plenty of time to train him up for Sophie Molly's fitting.

It would be seemly and suitable.

I know they all attribute superpowers to JKR, but the pious wall decorations used to say Thou God Seeth Me, not thou Jo.

Re. Bravissimo.

By women only - possibly, going by the job advert posted up thread.

For women only - well, the page linked below says:
"All of our shops teams have access to training to ensure we are able to offer inclusive and welcoming fitting experiences for everyone:
• Fitting those who identify as transgender, nonbinary, and gender non-conforming"

It also says:
"To help ensure our fittings are inclusive and safe for everyone…
...
• We give you the power to choose what experience is right for you. So, if you would rather be fitted away from other customers or at a quieter time we will do whatever it takes. Some examples might be: separate fitting rooms, out of hours fitting..."

So what does that mean with regard to TIMs? That the, presumably female, staff have to fit them? In separate rooms, possibly when few other people are around? Or that a TIM customer can, conversely, choose to be fitted with other customers around?

https://www.bravissimo.com/diversity-and-inclusion/

It looks to me like Bravissimo have gone half the way by invoking the SSE for hiring purposes.

They're not offering a guarantee that you won't find an unexpected bloke in the fitting room.

Possibly this is a rare occurence for them (M&S seems to be the TIMs' special place) so they're still hoping to thread the needle by trumpeting their inclusiveness, hoping it prevents them being monstered by TRAs on social media, and crossing their fingers that this will hardly ever happen and if it does they'll be able to handle it diplomatically.

I don't think they'll be able to keep that up indefinitely.

Trans identifying men cant help but use situations like these to talk about and show proof that they use female facilities. It was the same when the SC ruling was made.

Whatever their reason, they must appreciate its letting more women know that companies arent doing enough to keep what we would reasonably expect to be women only spaces, for women only?

They are just promoting the problem while thinking they are winning somehow.

I think they have to be specific in their hire policy. If it was a non customer facing role the SS provision is not as easy to justify so they will employ men.

For a role in the shop with direct customer contact the SS provision is justified as the vast majority of sales will be to women and of the sales to men the vast majority will not involve fitting.

If they advertise employment and a member of staff who has been employed as a woman to fit women only agrees to fit women I dont think it is reasonable to say the management can change the contract or for it to fall under do AOB if asked.

If a female employee agrees to the contract change the company have to do a risk assessment.

They could advertise for "HQ based" with all UK travel fitter who can only be male. His job is traveling to male fittings which can only be arranged by appointment.

So from a sales point of view they sell a product which can be bought by men as well as women and only offer a SS fitting service by appointment or clear T&C that on spec fitting are only if staff are available

If you are male and come in for a fitting you need to have booked a SS appointment or go to a specific store where a male fitter has the volume of throughput to be working in store on fixed days

Bras are not only bought by women as fashion clothing so they cant not sell or not fit without breaking the EA2010 (Wedding cake meet Balcony Bra)

I think the offer for out of hours appointment give them a lot of wiggle room. They are not refusing a fitting just creating an appropoiate appointment availability. And if they have staff who are willing to do the fitting they make a sale.

It may be that in this incident the mum had booked a bra fitting for her daughter at marks and Spencer and when the child was singled out by this employee she naturally thought that meant he would be the one fitting her.

Perhaps not the case and kind of besides the point - as either way, men shouldn’t ask children if they need a hand choosing bras - but it is likely and would add an extra level of fear for that child and others.

Women should not be forced to participate in strange men's sex games. 'I'm enjoying this' man very helpfully made it clear that that can happen to women working in underwear departments, and that the women's non-consent was part of the fun for him.

No.

just in case anyone hasn't seen it yet: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/03/my-life-in-sex

There need be no problem selling bras to male customers, or fitting them. Just have male staff trained to fit them.

Or the cool girls and allies could do it.

Retailers could ask for volunteers among their staff to fit TIMs. With absolutely no detriment whatsoever to those who chose not to volunteer.

But if it's being done out of hours, and it's being done by the cool girls who don't have a problem with it, where's the fun in that?