Misinformation correction: M&S Staff

[BeeSourianteAgain]

M&S have responded to people's enquiries, here's one:

https://bsky.app/profile/dpdormouse.bsky.social/post/3lvuzitrplc2f

As expected the staff member was just doing their job, something that happens thousands of times a day in shops all over the country.

As per normal, the trans panic was manufactured.

I fully expect all the GCs and media pundits who were pushing all sorts of hate to apologise, but as a person on their second LGBTQ moral panic I know very well how it goes.

Keep posting, please.

You make our case for us.

I don't know was it bigoted, transphobic or pearl clutchy of me to look up what the internet says about 'thelarche' (not being a medic I've never needed the word, it's unpleasant enough living through it without having to read about it) and guess what - it takes between 2 and 4 years to complete. So even if your age 11.3 for the start of it was correct, adding the mean 3 years to that gives, guess what, a result of 14.3 years.

Girls don't go from flat-chested to 'ping' full-bosomed overnight.

So our collective experience of being female seems to be - surprise - more accurate than your weird fantasy.

I notice that Nat doesn't address the absolutely central question about when it is acceptable for a male person (which a transwoman is, according to the recent judgement) to approach a young female person and offer to talk with her about her underwear. Which does seem to be what happened in M&S that day; no-one including M&S has denied it as far as I know.

I doubt very much that a male person's job would carry the expectation he would have to approach young females and talk to them about their underwear, so "just doing his job" is unlikely to be true.

And I am prepared to take the word of M&S assistants that they are not required as part of their job to approach anyone whatever; all my experience in M&S goes to back this up, because you have to hunt the people working there down, stalking them along the aisles from behind the displays and pouncing as they or you round a corner, to get any help in M&S at all.

The average age of menarche (starting one's period) in the UK is 12. The average age of thelarche (breast development) is 11.3 years, with a range of 8-13 years - funnily enough the average age for a first bra fitting is also 11 years. Also a reminder that teenaged girls can be very discriminatory to their peers

Quick question.

Why did you feel the need to explain female puberty to us women?

That’s the sort of thing a person would do if trying to convince others they actually know what it’s about, rather than just having googled it.

Then rounded off with a dig at teenage girls as well. All the girls I knew were either supportive of each other going through a shared experience or said nothing because they wanted to be private about it. It’s almost like you’ve never been involved in the process.

I tried splitting the comments into some commonly recognized categories

Being tall is not a crime.

Doing your job is not a crime.

Offering help to shoppers, when you work in a shop, is not a crime.

Offering to direct customers to where they can book an appointment is not a crime.

DENY

Transphobia, (i.e. discrimination against a protected characteristic), is a crime.

REVERSE VICTIM AND OFFENDER

This is discrimination and pearl-clutching and it does not benefit anyone.

It does not benefit tall women, who face unfair judgement about whether being tall or not is 'feminine'.

It does not benefit transindividuals who have the right to exist and work in public spaces.

ATTACK

It does not benefit shoppers who may receive less customer service because an employee is worried they will get shouted at and complaints simply for doing their job.

REVERSE VICTIM AND OFFENDER

If the mother felt uncomfortable, for whatever reason, all she had to do was say "No thank you, we're fine", same as for any offer of assistance which isn't required. It didn't need this drama, this circus surrounding it.

REVERSE VICTIM AND OFFENDER

Separately, I also wonder whether this is true or merely fabricated to stir. The average age of menarche (starting one's period) in the UK is 12. The average age of thelarche (breast development) is 11.3 years, with a range of 8-13 years - funnily enough the average age for a first bra fitting is also 11 years. Also a reminder that teenaged girls can be very discriminatory to their peers and there is a huge amount of pressure to fit in with everyone else at that age - if everyone else is wearing a bra, it encourages early conformity.

ATTACK

A girl's first ever bra-purchase at the age of 14 years is statistically unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.

REVERSE VICTIM AND OFFENDER

Do you know what is more likely? A transgender or non-binary person being the victim of sexual assault, not to mention facing discrimination for simply trying to live their lives in peace.

REVERSE VICTIM AND OFFENDER

Echo, Echo… Echo…

if we are an echo chamber, it’s just because there is no alternative response to the ridiculous arguments consistently proffered by those that think they know what being a woman is.

😂

“Why did you feel the need to explain female puberty to us women?”

It is remarkable that someone thought we silly mummies on a site called mumsnet would not know about first bras and breast development. And that they thought that there post was relevant. When really, the only thing that is relevant is :

No male people should be approaching teenaged girls in the bra department.

That is actually the foundational relevant thing about this incident.

Nailed it.

I’d find it intrusive to be approached by anyone in the lingerie section of M and S. It’s hardly Rigby and Peller, is it. But a 14 year old being approached by a man about buying bras is definitely a huge red flag, however this person identifies. This individual, and indeed anyone not seeing the issue here, definitely needs some basic safeguarding training!

Ridiculous is the only word. You'd think they'd have the sense to shut up and hope the whole incident will be forgotten, not put on a display of perving over the stages of female puberty.

The way to look like safe, responsible, adult citizens. Not.

I love Operation Let Them Speak.

I am quite liking the repeated bumping of the subject.

I welcome it.

The bigot is you here. With your 3 posts to your account. Your femphobia, your hatred of women and girls and your support of males approaching girls to talk about underwear says a lot about you and your support for male predators. And yes it is horrid. You have no idea how abhorrent and disgusting your hateful views are.

Exactly.

I was fighting the urge to use the word mansplaining so hard…

When really, the only thing that is relevant is: No male people should be approaching teenaged girls in the bra department.

100% agree. No ifs, no buts, no men.

Perfectly said

You posts are funnnny aas fuuuck.

When exactly is it ok for a man to ask a 14 year old who he never met before about her undewear?

Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that TRA ideology is a Men's Rights Movement fuelled by gross misogyny.

The TRAs are basically just incels of a different flavour.

Natalie is not exactly selling the idea that trans ideology and safeguarding go hand in hand, is they?

Hummm....

Snap

Female name handle, and uses technical terms like 'thelarche' instead of just saying when girls first start developing breasts, like it's a male who looked it up on google and copy/pasted. Obvious male is obvious. They really have no idea how unintentionally obvious they are as males. Probably got an erection looking up that info too.

🤢

Shrieking?

Careful, your misogyny is showing!

Indeed they do. A quick Google found me this:

www.bravissimo.com/careers-at-bravissimo/vacancies/assistant-manager-london-oxford-circus-va1190/

oooof!

Firstly, good for Bravissimo.

Secondly, stating it that clearly looks really bad for anywhere (and anyone) who tries to blur the sex boundaries of bra fitting.

From the advert - can't be much clearer than this.

Please note, due to the nature of the roles in our shops, there is a genuine occupational requirement for post holders to be female. This is covered under Schedule 9, Part 1, of the 2010 Equality Act. Should you have any questions about this, please contact our recruitment team on 01926 459940.

They are serious about their customers, professional