M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department (Telegraph)

[WimbledonWhites]

How many “cis” male members of staff do you suppose would approach teenage girls in the lingerie department?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/ms-apologises-over-trans-employee-in-bra-department/

https://archive.ph/nTDB9archive.ph/nTDB9

Did you or anyone else ask your daughter if she was comfortable with a lad just out of school and not much older than her helping her with such an intimate procedure? Did you advocate for her at all?

So you don't mind male assistance in a female underwear area of a shop. Tell me why those of us who mind very much should have to put up with it?

Why do you think we have single sex spaces at all?

This absolutely isn't about 'anti trans', no-one is complaining about a female dressed in masculine clothing. It's about men. Men who get a cheap thrill from talking to women and girls about their underwear, men who spy on women and girls changing, men who put cameras in female changing rooms and loos, men who assault women and girls.

Men putting on feminine clothing doesn't stop male pattern behaviour or male pattern offending.

Sexual assault and abuse is an actual problem.

Trauma blights lives.

I won't stop fighting for the safety of women and girls.

Not all trans people disregard women's boundaries like this. I know this from personal experience. I really wish people who consider themselves trans allies would platform and champion non abusive trans people instead. It's not feminists making trans people look bad.

He wanted to measure a child's chest for a bra.

TBF it says he doesn't do bra fittings.

Pretty much 😁

That poster needs to read the room.

No he didn't, read the article. He's not employed as a bra fitter. No suggestion that he offered to do this.

I reckon that poster needs to understand boundaries rather urgently.

Pretty much 😁Why? Were you looking for a fight? 😂

I think there's very few people who don't accept trans people exist and function in society. The area of disagreement is around what this actually means. With views ranging from TW are women, indistinguishable from women, and therefore there should be no reason they shouldn't be fitting a teenage girls bra; to TW are men, but we will politely accept they wish to be called by a female name and dress in a stereotypically female manner, provided that in situations where sex matters they will be treated the same as other men.
The debate is never about people denying trans peoples existence or their right to function in society. Its always about whether TW are women, or men.

It doesn’t matter. They were in the bra section.

A man walked up to a 14 year old girl and asked if he could help her find some thing to support her naked breast tissue.

The M&S manager has a number of staff available and decided it would boost bra sales to have a male member of staff walk up to underage girls and ask if she needed some help in picking out a product could perk up or flatten out her breast tissue.

So the really important question about the point you are making is did you tell a member of staff that there was no loo roll in the mens toilet?

Yes, I understand that. I'm just saying those posters saying he's trying to get his hands on young women through doing bra fittings are barking up the wrong tree.

Having had the misfortune to develop quite large breasts at the age of 13, the thing I have found just incredibly exhausting has been having to fend off unwanted male attention for half a century. Some of it 'just' being ogled, some of it verbal, some of it physical assault.

Fortunately older age brings reduced visibility, but it doesn't stop. Men who feel they have a right to lech over women and to fetishise our clothes are, indeed, hateful.

And some of them adopt a transwoman identity, and some of them shop for wives who'd sooner choose their own clothes (did you see the thread last week?). The trans ones are no less obnoxious than the husbands.

M&S should be making it harder for male creeps to indulge themselves, not easier.

I barely use M&S and I've stopped using my local huge store completely when I saw a TIM employee wandering around the ladies wear & lingerie department. No thanks.

I agree. The incident as described is already unacceptable. It just undermines the valid points people are making when additional unfounded accusations are made.

Thing that bothers me is that not every woman has the confidence to speak out. They don’t want to be labelled bigot. So they keep quiet. And then they end up in a situation where they are uncomfortable. We know full way people end up buying stuff they don’t want or need because they can’t say no to the sales person. So how many girls and women have experienced the same but kept quiet?

what also bothers me is we are teaching girls to suppress or ignore their instincts. That is dangerous imo.

Most women want their female only spaces to be free of all men. There is no such thing as a “cis male” and “trans women” are just a type of man.

From pubety to what ever age you are now you always picked 100%? M&S would love that with no need to worry about their exchange policy.

They may or may not be.
But the question is right there in the OP - how many other male employees would approach someone with a teenage girl in the lingerie section? IDK, I’ve never seen any there - of course the majority of retail staff are women so it’s pretty unlikely that that there would ever be a need for male staff to be there.

I am trying to stop myself using the word transwoman. It is too easy for people to be confused. Men can’t change sex, nor can women either to be even handed, so I think the term Trans identifying man , or TIM covers the situation. And is quicker to write and doesn’t steal the word woman from the people entitled to use it.

TIM. Still a man, identifies as trans.

@Ereshkigalangcleg agree with this “There is no such thing as a “cis male” and “trans women” are just a type of man”. Just wish more people would call them men, so that we can go back to proper safeguarding. You can’t solve an issue if you can’t first name it.

No, he is not a bra-fitting member of staff. I'm just saying (as has someone else) that it's important to be accurate and correct. One of the things I loathe most about TRA discourse and arguments is the unfounded, often wildly inaccurate comments that characterise it, which are so often put forward as truth. We need to be better than that.

Indeed.

An unfortunately consequence of the TRA's relentless hounding and shaming of women is that many women (myself included) feel more threatened by TIM than non-TIM. Because organisations like M&S have colluded in cloaking them in a golden shield, meaning women have not been able to call out threatening or discomforting male behaviour, confident in the knowledge that they will be supported.