M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department (Telegraph)

[WimbledonWhites]

How many “cis” male members of staff do you suppose would approach teenage girls in the lingerie department?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/ms-apologises-over-trans-employee-in-bra-department/

https://archive.ph/nTDB9archive.ph/nTDB9

If you don’t understand the anger then maybe you’re not aware of the many many other boundary pushing incidents that some trans activists (and I’m expecting most trans people arent in that category) have indulged in. I’ve no idea why they do this but it’s repellant and needs to stop. The anger on this thread is because women feel ignored. And that theres widespread unlawful behaviour sanctioned by the NHS, government departments and trusted brands like M&S. Under the circumstances anger seems like quite a reasonable and healthy response.

Yes - we covered that much earlier up thread but thanks for re-iterating

Great we agree that he shouldn’t have been there.

You choose to give an adult male approaching a teenaged girl in a bra section the benefit of the doubt. Why?

And why does it matter if this person had the kindest intention in the world. As you say, it is a safeguarding fail. Have you noticed the pages and pages of us all pointing out that it was a massive safeguarding fail?

The mother has sought assurance from M&S that this will not happen again. That safeguarding will be taught and that M&S will change their policy.

It is legitimate to discuss the motivations for why this is a safeguarding issue. Why do you think people should only be giving this man the benefit of the doubt and assume that he has no intention of doing anything but has innocently crossed the boundary?

Why should women have to assume that a man has reached adulthood without understanding that his presence in the bra dept makes girls and many women uncomfortable and maybe distressed?

Safeguarding analysis requires the discussion of all motivations. Safeguarding policy should also assume the worst intentions so that the policy protects the people it is meant to protect. Which incidentally in this case protects primarily the female customer but also to a lesser degree any male staff.

@relln ’just offering to help’-

Describe that conversation for me, without talking about the girl’s underwear.

How can a man help a child in the underwear department, without talking about underwear?

She’s in the bra department. Looking at bras. She hasn’t asked for assistance. Is he going to altruistically direct her to the biscuit department?

There is no way to engage a woman or child shopping in the underwear section without talking about underwear. Which is massively inappropriate.

Why do you think it is better to assume that the man is ‘dim witted’ or has some deficiency in understanding other’s feelings than to assume that he understood the interaction may cause a teenaged girl discomfort?

Can I suggest you read the thread? Then maybe you might realise that your posts have been like a rinse and repeat cycle.

As others have pointed out, this thread really is stuck in a cycle of repetitive points being raised and answered and women being told that they are mean and have assumed the worst.

To answer your question, no. He didn’t actually have that discussion. But think about this. What do you believe the resulting discussion would have been if she, the teenager, said she would like help?

What ‘help’ would that male member of staff be able to give her that didn’t involve a discussion about style, size and usage? What next step after ‘can I help’ would not involve discussion of the product in that bra dept?

Or do you think he was asking a girl is she needed help, while she was not walking around looking for help, to then say ‘I will get someone else’? If that was the case, why didn’t he alert a female staff member from the start?

Yes, he could be poorly trained. But it is probably more likely that he either understood his presence would be unwanted as it was a teenaged girl in a bra section he approached or had been so assured by people who have fully supported his belief that he is female that he acted as if he was a female member of staff.

As you agree, it was in appropriate in any case.

As the mum has been clear on twitter about her aim for her complaint, she wants M&S policy to centre appropriate safeguarding.

I have pointed out repeatedly that the universally known (but unwritten) rule of safeguarding has a always been: adult men should not accost unaccompanied children of either sex. Ever

Some people on this board seem to think that for a person with trans status the rules don't apply. They do.

It does not matter if the adult male's motives are pure. Children (particularly teenagers) need to know that being approached by a strange man is a danger sign and that they should get away sharpish. Trying to erode that self-protective knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Some people on this board seem to think that for a person with trans status the rules don't apply.

Exactly. They have been brainwashed into thinking it's the kind, liberal, progressive thing to do. But all it does is create a sacred caste (this man is not like other men) and scare people off applying the standard filters (you just hate trans people, you foaming, hysterical, smelling salted bigot!). And when there's a sacred caste that nobody can properly question, and can be self selected into, what are predators going to do???

But like I said before, they've invested their sense of self into this and to realise they made the wrong call would strike into them in a way they can't handle. So they have to dig in deep to preserve their self image, and of course that leads to minor narcissistic rage when it's confronted, as we've seen.

Luckily, most people in the country were never THAT invested and never used it to define their self worth. So once they saw all the predictable stuff happening, it wasn't too hard for them to think "oh no, I never wanted that, that's not right" and change course, as the polls now show.

Im disappointed M&S apologised for this non incident

Ah another one taking the side of a predatory man over a vulnerable teenage girl.

Does that make you feel good?

Oh joy are ppl STILL having to have explained to them that it's not because he's trans, it's because he's a man?

I’ve been quietly watching this thread. But, as someone who was sexually abused by a male family member as a child, this would have upset me now as an adult let alone as a teenager. Its creepy. Why does a man wanting to be recognised as a woman trump a woman’s right to a same sex service. I don’t get why he approached her at all unless it was for his own gratification.

@Blinky21 you can't gaslight all of the people all of the time 😬.

I can see why you might be disappointed. A public apology from a trusted brand has definitely attracted a lot of public attention.

If I were a trans person at this point I’d be putting mitigations in place to protect myself from any problematic allegations.

I got the impression from the article that the Supreme Court making it clear that woman have, and have always had, a right to same-sex service (some weeks after this incident) was the thing that prompted the mother to write to M&S.

Probably what prompted M&S to realise they need to sort out their rules for employee conduct as well.

For those who are so worried about this poor man being "accused of being a perv":
That is precisely what those of us who have safeguarding training are fucking TOLD TO THINK.

This poster is on the back of every staff toilet door in the school where I teach. So we never forget it.

Interestingly, I'm a man and spent my entire 2 years working at M&S whilst a student in 2000/2001 working on Lingerie, tills, stock control and displays.

Did you approach 14 year old girls, unprompted, while they were shopping for bras?

Wow, M&S have been shit for female customers for longer than I realised.

I wonder how many customers were put off by your presence?

As I said upthread, I stopped shopping in my local M&S equivalent at around that date because a security man was stationed in the women's underwear section. It felt creepy.

So just for the headcount

how often did you approach a young teen girl who was not looking for help and offer to help her select items?

I cannot stand men being in a lingerie department in any capacity whatsoever. Even the partners of women shopping, who often plonk themselves down and have a good stare. Just F off.

No of course not, and I'm certainly not condoning that, just pointing out that there have been men in the lingerie department for decades.

Funnily enough, I would probably have seen that as a safeguarding measure against men being pests and creeps within. He wasn't serving or approaching customers.

Well I'm glad to hear that.

So you agree with us all that this man's behaviour was totally inappropriate and problematic?