M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department (Telegraph)

[WimbledonWhites]

How many “cis” male members of staff do you suppose would approach teenage girls in the lingerie department?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/ms-apologises-over-trans-employee-in-bra-department/

https://archive.ph/nTDB9archive.ph/nTDB9

Of course he was keen!

My daughter and her female body are not props for a man's self image or immersion roleplay. She is not obliged to undress before men to prove how moral she is, or so that your trans child can never ever be confronted with a contradiction to her self image. You don't own her or her body and you can't consent for her. It's very alarming that you don't feel that way about your own daughters.

Hello Pete!

Gosh NC would be pleased that Pete proved so very useful!!

No, no, no. I never once endorsed the behaviour of this person in M&S. Not once.
I was replying to the poster who said ANY man in the lingerie dept is a potential deviant.
The male who approached the teenage girl, is of course suspicious.

So you also think it's appropriate for men to approach young girls when shopping for bras with their mothers? Really?

You can't see how maybe some of the rest of us don't think that's ok?

You know your size or think you do.
Have you ever had to returned any or did you always get the fit and shape outcome right each time?

Wrong. I've never had a bra fitting.

Not RTFT but really surprised at the reaction here. Firstly, if we accept that trans people have a right to exist and function in everyday society, why is it surprising to find a trans person working in an M&S store? I am not a fan of M&S (their undies have definitely gone down hill in recent years) but I suspect they didn’t deliberately recruit this person to work in the lingerie section but moved them there when staff was low.

Having lived in London all my life I am no longer surprised to see men in any space. I regularly observe male staff in the lingerie dept in stores. And, in my uni days I would frequent the large M&S at Marble Arch, the lingerie dept of which often had more male shoppers than female at times as there would be (wealthy?) Arab men shopping for their wives buying lingerie in bulk. No one at M&S refused their business. And why can’t a husband shop for his wife etc?

i have greater concerns about the increasing lack of women only spaces as more toilets are converted to gender neutral - just last week I visited a well known UK location with DH and the kids and was saddened when my 14yo dad reported a man (not trans) using the women’s (not gender neutral) toilets because there was no loo roll in the men’s. We have created a free for all when it comes to gender and we cannot be alarmed when a cis male is in any of those once safe spaces for women any more.

Hi Pete again, my friend, Pete the plumber thinks i am a perv.

A grown man with a 14yo girl in the lingerie section? Definitely pervy.

What was he going to do next, offer to measure her bust in the changing rooms?

Well that is your point of view. But it isn’t the choice a lot of women would make , including those who for cultural and religious reasons or because of previous trauma would find this situation untenable, so it’s not up to you to choose for them, and I incidentally wonder how your daughters feel about being offered up as sacrifice on the Altar of Woke. Would they be happy for example to have their first smear tests done by a TIM?

Yes we bloody well can be alarmed and we can push back. We don’t have to roll over and accept it.

This is the M & S which now labels their bras with "Chest sizes".

When I emailed to tell them that women had busts, I got a nonsensical reply about being consistent across all their product ranges.

I wrote back to say that they were talking rubbish and that as a result they have lost my custom. I have bought two bras and a pack of knickers since, none of which were from M & S - which I would have done if it hadn't been for that twaddle.

I was pretty sure that they were pandering to the TW market.

He's one to talk, always nipping into the women's changing rooms whenever he feels like it.

“Jesus Christ, people. Focus this insane amount of energy towards ACTUAL problems and see things change!”

I wonder when people who use this tactic will understand just how arrogant it is to assume that they have the right to prioritise what others feel is important. I wonder if in their determination to shame others it even sinks in that to tell women what they should be focusing on, in this case this person’s personal list of priorities, and what women should be directing their attention is misogynistic. Even more so to do this on a feminism board.

Even worse when the shaming comes because women are discussing a potential safeguarding fail that harms female people, and removes the privacy a 14 yr old girl needs.

Imagine feeling so righteous that you feel you should be able to do this.

🙄

I can understand that a male member of staff might have occasion to go into the women's lingerie department. Though, M&S have vast quantities of female staff, so I'd expect this to be kept to a minimum.

While in there, I'd expect a male staff member to do their best to not draw attention to their presence and not disturb the female customers.

I would have thought any male staff member would understand it was completely inappropriate to approach a young girl, unprompted, in this department.

No, but I was never well-endowed, to put it delicately, so I dare say it’s been easier for me.

It's only creepy and predatory if you think trans women are playing out a sick kink - which shows you don't know much or anything about any actual real trans women.

Have you read the ICD 11 section on gender incongruence? Do you know what has to be excluded from it for a diagnosis? Have you heard of transvestic fetishism?

https://icd.who.int/browse/2025-01/mms/en#411470068

That's all you've got?

We respect you Pete, and know that like all decent men you would not choose to pretend to insinuate yourself into a womens spaces unless it was to make a very valid point.

Thankyou for your sterling work in Fife.

Yeah, well it read to me that you implied that all men who are in lingerie dept. are potential deviants.
No right minded person would defend a male approaching a young girl in a bra shop

So do explain how you manage to work out which one of the 25ish options is the one you want

Exactly. They now know that it's unacceptable to shout lewd remarks at young girls so have gone down the lets pretend I'm a woman to get access
and noone can complain. Perverts hiding in plain sight.

I strongly suspect lots of women have never had a proper bra fitting. (I've had a couple over the years.) Trying on a bra in a changing room to see if it fits isn't quite the same thing. But many don't do that either.

Of course lots of women are also wearing the wrong size bra 🤔