M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department (Telegraph)

[WimbledonWhites]

How many “cis” male members of staff do you suppose would approach teenage girls in the lingerie department?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/ms-apologises-over-trans-employee-in-bra-department/

https://archive.ph/nTDB9archive.ph/nTDB9

Eww pervy men pretending to be women🤢 absolute cretins

Yes, it’s really missing the point, the complaint was more general than just the specific incident.

M&S just need to send out some sort of reminder to all male staff, if they see a woman and/or girl looking as though they might need help in the underwear department, they should find a woman member of staff or maybe call over ‘would you like me to find someone to help you’. If the woman is happy to be helped by a male she can ask him to.

I had a bra fitting in an M and S once.

The woman did the measuring and said - you're a 30A.

I looked a bit surprised but decided she was the expert so must know what she's doing.

The bra she brought back for me to try on couldn't even be fastened at the back and cut my boobs in two.

At which point she went off for some other sizes and the 34B fit perfectly.

So I've never had much faith in them since.

Ffs read what I was replying to before commenting.
I really don't want to insult you but please do more reading of full posts before posting yourself.

This is getting fucking tiresome now. If you READ what 1 poster said about men in a bra dept.
THAT IS WHAT I WAS COMMENTING ON.
I never once implied that I endorsed an adult male perving on a young girl.
So keep your lazy opinion to yourself

So M&S employ men to ‘help’ 14 year old girls in their lingerie department? You’re honestly saying that that’s his job? I suggest you try and find some parents of 14 year old girls and ask them if they’re ok with that.

I can only comment on what YOU said, don’t blame me for your lack of articulation.

I don't have much faith in them either - the fitting might have been correct but the bra the assistant brought me to try had cups so close together I can only assume whoever designed it for M&S had never seen a woman! It seemed to work on the assumption that my boobs were stacked roughly one on top of the other...

Gave up with the whole shebang and just wear sports bras now.

They've long been known for being terrible at fitting. I never realised they were so clueless that they'd stick men in the lingerie department and think that a) we wouldn't notice and b) it would encourage us to buy more because we'd be so impressed with their progressiveness. They've done sexist campaigns in the past so we know they know who the women are.

Or your lack of comprehensive reading skills 😂

For the purposes of the EQUALITY ACT which is written to include ALL people in society to live as freely as possible, all men and transwomen, regardless of their GRC status remain male.

If there is a legitimate aim, males can be excluded from certain roles and situations to ensure that females feel safe, comfortable and retain their dignity.

A job working in a women's lingerie department potentially can use THE LEGAL EXEMPTIONS of the act for the legitimate aim of ensuring their customers feel safe, comfortable and retain their dignity rather than self exclude from the necessary task of shopping for a bra. The transwoman does NOT have a necessary need to work in that department and can be tasked elsewhere.

The key point is which group has a NEED here.

Living within a society DOES NOT mean we all have access to everything. It means we are free to live within certain limitations and this applies to us all. We can not do certain things just because we want to because they are antisocial and have a negative impact on others. For example someone might want to play loud music at 4am but they are not permitted to do so, because it's not very fair on others. They can usually crack on playing the music in the middle of the day as long as it's not persistent and regular.

The equality act takes this principle to the next level in terms of our personal characteristics and what is fair. What is fair does not mean you get to do everything. There is a difference.

Very very important point.

Adults who work with children are taught safeguarding - you don't put yourself in a position which can be questionable for their safety AND your own.

M and S need to get off the diversity training and do some safeguarding training too.

If. Women who want a female member of staff have to make an appointment whilst others dont that is against the
Equalities act

They can’t do that
Ill wait for the first court case

Ffs. In my opinion if an 'ordinary' bloke isn't widely accepted to do something then a trans woman shouldn't be doing it either.
What a horrible experience for a 14 yr old, but he shouldn't have been approaching any women in that dept.

Yes, I'd love for someone who defends this kind of thing to answer why it's different for a transwoman than it is for a regular man without a gender identity.

Time to get rid of "gender reassignment" from the Equality Act. It's not discrimination to refuse to let creeps work for you - it's basic safeguarding. If I was heading up M&S he'd get the sack. As would every other one of the gender-woos.

It wouldn't surprise me if people hiring for shop floor staff for a department store now shy away from hiring transwomen. They might find someone who'd be a real asset to them and do a great job, but if they let them serve the lingerie section it's a safeguarding hazard and will cost them custom because despite what the TRAs order you to think, most women don't want a man serving them while they shop for underwear. But if they tell TW that they'd love to employ them but they just need to go everywhere but lingerie and possibly womenswear, then even though that's legal and sensible, they'd be open to accusations of whatever the fuck litany of crimes the TRAs in this thread are on about. I can absolutely see why they might just go for someone else who isn't going to bring that risk.

And that's illegal too; you're not supposed to refuse to hire someone based on their gender identity, though you can legally exclude people based on their sex if it's a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, like keeping lingerie sales settings single sex. But it's going to happen, largely because TRAs can't respect the law, women's safety, women's privacy, women's dignity or any expression of wrongthink, so well done guys. But it's ok, because as you keep telling us, this isn't an important issue and you're all far too busy campaigning and working towards More Important Things to bother with this. So you won't mind when this happens, right? Right?

I know what you were responding to.

This is the post you were responding to.

Good men stay out so bad men stand out.
It’s a saying to illustrate that any man in a women’s space is by definition not a good man, because good men stay out.
If good men start hanging around women’s spaces with their wives and girlfriends, it’s harder to spot the bad guys

I think your response was preposterous. Not because of my lack of comprehension.

We've changed/clarified the law before, we can do it again! Personally I wouldn't have any of them in a customer service role, as this thread has pointed out, it's not fair on normal people to have to "validate" men's fetishes at every turn. A sex falsification law can't come quickly enough.

Came on to find a thread.

To the employee - read the room dude! How does this make you feel a woman?

Obviously you have no idea what it means to be a woman approaching a young emerging woman processing the experience of purchasing a garment that is indicative of her emerging sexuality and the history and politics associated with that garment, and the expectation associated with it.

The girl and her mother deserve a medal for taking this forward.

I agree, repeal the GRA and remove Gender Reassignment from the equality act. Why shouldn’t companies be able to decide they don’t want a man in a dress representing them or to put their other employees in the situation of having to validate them?

@SidewaysOtterNottingham.

This is such a good post and worthy of reposting again

‘Where are the bras for teenagers?
‘They’re right over there.’

And that would be fair enough, but less likely that a question such as this would be asked in the middle of the bra department?

I understand that accuracy is very important in these discussions. However, often those who say things that seem unyielding and blunt are trying to get points across without the emotional shielding that serves to obfuscate the issues being discussed. When the emotional shields such as language and feeling that you need to defend someone's actions because they are somehow not able to either know that what they are doing is wrong, or because they have a belief that is genuinely held but that doesn't reflect their true situation are stripped away, there is little to defend actions such as what has happened here.

The thing is, for robust safeguarding to be enabled, those emotional shields have to stripped away. As you seem to recognise. So absolutely, point out inconsistencies. Just as you have accepted that in defending this behaviour, you yourself fell into a consistency trap. We all did / do at some stage of discussing this issue.

You sound batshit