NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #49

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025

"Not safe".

@WearyAuldWumman

The photo at the top is interesting, a different composition to what we often saw, but still not addressing their height difference (Upton is much taller) - now they seem the same height. This point was made by others early in February, too, when the first photos of them lined the newspaper articles.

Upton:

I acknowledge I’m contracted to work a certain number of shifts but I find it difficult to accept that I need to disrupt my schedule to rearrange the shift given that the reason I didn’t work is nothing to do with me.

Errm...

“I’m not sure whether this is something I should just accept in this instance and raise later, or whether I should be a bit more stern about it.”

Not sure what being 'stern' would involve, but it's a word associated with being in charge.

Unfortunately some of the most vulnerable kids in poor areas have absolutely fallen prey to this too.

https://juliebindel.substack.com/p/why-do-so-many-girls-in-blackpool?utm_campaign=posts-open-in-app&triedRedirect=true

Paid article but several paragraphs are available before the paywall.

Thank the stars that Sandie had Neale Harvey as a local MP. I work in a captured NHS Trust, have a rabidly captured professional body, and my MP is loudly TWAW. Luckily I'm a terf but Sandie wasn't - if she worked and lived where I do, who could she have turned to? Thank you Neale Harvey for directing her to Sex Matters.

He must be the biggest pain in the arse to work with. The incident with the dementia patient calling him Son or Sonny and how upset he was that a junior colleague didn't speak up on his behalf. Did he really expect his colleague to try and explain his trans identity to an elderly dementia patient?? Why on earth would anyone let this flower anywhere need patients?

https://unherd.com/2023/01/blackpools-forsaken-children/

Different article, same author, full text available.

And hiding his manly hands away too. Hands and feet. Nothing to be done about them.

“Beth, you are wearing clip on earrings and a complex”

😂

New NHS Fife emails uncovered by The Courier can reveal the operational chaos caused by the Sandie Peggie and Beth Upton feud.

And they all overlooked the really simple solution - a separate area for Dr Upton to change in, or he could indeed have changed with his male colleagues since he felt so unsafe around a small, female nurse I am sure they would have swung into full on protective mode for the poor wee soul.

and
"HR used the phrase “interpersonal clash,” which is what they said when Cheryl microwaved a tuna bake with no cover."

There was something in the rumour mill about Sandie allegedly complaining about someone cooking/reheating food that was smellling strongly - I'm not sure that was even confirmed. They phrased it in a way that she wouldn't have said it like in the quote above but in a racist way.

But as hundreds of food-at-work-threads on MN prove, food with strong smells in a place with limited / no ventilation and small rooms (which break rooms / work kitchens often are) where the cooking smell goes everywhere, are a hot topic of freedom versus concern for others.
This is certainly no extraordinary topic and happens almost as often as the "too much perfume or not" discussion. Boswelltoday additionally chose something that is from the European kitchen to show there are many sources for this topic.

They could also have chosen this as an interim solution starting immediatly until the investigation and HR problems were sorted.

I find it incredibly baffling and babying of employees that they have to be separated immediatly and can never cross paths again. It is obviously clear this wasn't a physical "assault" of anyone but a heated discussion with the main point of the changing room, not the cooperation at work itself.

So separate them during changing but let them still keep on working.

If anyone thinks of how many unpleasant interactions there are during a work life, sometimes with colleagues, sometimes with customers, just thinking of the people who scream at supermarket workers or the people who have to stop shoplifters, or the staff that gets assaulted by family members in a hospital etc, there is so little protection for them, especially very little in advance.

Just as an example, the threads here about plenty of family & friends showing up in A&E for no reason, making a racket and ordering food when patients feel sick
(I don't mean where it is really necessary, such as single parent and children or other genuine cases) - where is the concern for their employees who have to work in this extra stressy environment and what do they do to preempt this, instead of offering empty words afterwards?

If the NHS Fife admin hadn't been so blinded by an ideology, this could have been sorted much more pragmatically until the legal side was dealt with.

Upton wanted the validation of using the female facilities. I don't think he'd have taken at all kindly to a suggestion, however well-intentioned, that he use the male facilities or a separate space. It would have been interesting to see how that played out - could have ended with him suing NHS Fife rather than being sued.

Can you imagine some kids on a rough council estate deciding that they were going call themselves Beth and start using the girls facilities they'd get the absolute piss taken out them.

I was just comparing last week how desperate I was at school not to be put in white socks as I'd have the absolute piss ripped out of me for being a virgin (of course I was, thankfully, I was a child 🙄) to what is being flaunted in everyone's faces and lauded as stunning brave nowadays. It's beyond astounding. How the actual fuck did we get here.

Regarding Upton working in A&E with his 'sensitivities', I doubt very much he'd be troubled by patients in the most dire need and circumstances, I suspect his personality type would prevent him from being bothered. He is the one in need of anything and everything after all, nobody else is of any consequence unless they give him supply.

Rory Stewart seemed alright for a while, when he first came on my radar, then I heard him say he'd given up his job to walk for two years. My eyes rolled so hard I put my back out.

I still can't get over Upton describing the alleged ignoring as a 'patient safety' issue because HE wouldn't be able to care for patients if he was upset by being ignored. He described it as though it were a live incident like an explosion or RTA when he said patients safety means "individual safety first, then the team, then the patient". I mean, absolutely if you are pulling people from a burning building you have to keep yourself out of danger first or nobody's getting saved, but the idea that his feelings trump the safety of the patient in front of him in A&E is utterly ludicrous.

Oh, they didn't overlook a separate area for DU though, they thought it would be undignified for him (as I recall. There is so much to remember and so many threads!) He was seemingly the only one deserving of having his dignity being preserved - and of course the women were not even asked their opinion, as it would be outing. As if they were incapable of spotting the 6ft bloke in the women's changing room.

Yes, Dues I should have put deliberately overlooked.

They couldn't have willingly bent over any further for him without their backs snapping.

Don’t forget….

the 6ft bloke in a bra in the women's changing room.

the 6ft bloke in a bra in the women's changing room.

Everytime someone mentions Upton in his bra I get The Lumberjack Song from Monty Python in my head so thanks for that Knotty😂

I wonder if he went to good old gender inclusive M&S for his bra fitting 🤔

Rigby & Peller surely?

I get a deep involuntary shudder and rictus grin (not joyful)

I imagine he found a use for those balled up old hockey socks he kept for sentimental reasons.

It's amazing to think that Upton was being such a twat when he was also the only person who knew that he had lied and lied and lied in making up the complaint that had SP suspended in the first place.

I hope everyone involved feels like the utter fool he made of them.

I paid my £1 for a 3 month subscription to the Courier and the Scottish Herald. Their summaries were helpful at the time.

This is why I came across this article in the Herald, under the headline “Beth Upton's life and identity have been dragged through the media”.
It was written by the chief executive of the Equality Network.

Apologies if it’s paywalled, but here are some extracts.

A paragraph near the start:
Often, some people’s outrage is platformed, reported, given airtime, whilst others’ is not. Take for example the biggest Trans Pride March in the history of the UK – which happened in London last weekend – where reportedly 100 thousand LGBT+ people and their allies stood in solidarity and showed their outrage at recent decisions affecting trans people’s lives and at how this community are being scapegoated, demonised and weaponised. This was barely covered by the media.

It continues
Beth Upton, an ordinary person doing her ordinary job, has now suffered her very existence discussed as though public property. Without, of course, any insight into her life, her reality, her experiences, her truth. On the other hand, Sandie Peggie has had an unfathomable amount of space in the media, and access to elected officials, to share hers.

The article ends:
Beth Upton went to work on Christmas Eve as herself, she carried on as no doubt she would on any normal day. Since then, her life, her body and her identity have been dissected and dragged through countless media articles, through a lengthy, at times cruel and gruelling tribunal process. Her mere presence as herself at work was challenged. At no point did we hear from her in the media, at no point was her story told, at no point have we heard about the effect this has had on her, her working life, her family and loved ones.
Instead, we have seen countless coverage sharing Sandie Peggie’s side. Now we are seeing illuminated some of the other side of that coin. Though we still don’t see Beth Upton’s side – her story, her humanity, perhaps deemed irrelevant to the toxic narrative many are intent on furthering. The side that allows Beth Upton her humanity, allows her awful experience to be shared, her supporters to be seen is, much like Trans Pride in London, invisible. This, and this week's revelations regarding Sandie Peggie’s views, should give people serious pause for thought.