NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #48

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again on 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Xposted with Eresh
Just repeating: I don't put the courgette into salted water, I sprinkle with salt and let drain in colander for several hours.
Also, the date, pecan and rum ice cream from the same site is a thing of beauty.

Date, pecan and rum ice cream? Oh my

I remember it too. Living in a student flat in West Nicholson Street at the time. Lots of local outrage but it took years to build. It is so long ago the graffiti on the wall nearby said free Nelson Mandela.

Oooh that ice cream sounds lovely.

I'll also add here that there are a LOT of abusive and violent men claiming a female identity, so if you're able to argue that they still deserve unfettered access to women's spaces because they say they're women, you can most certainly grasp that a woman still has sex-based rights even if she shared racist jokes at some point.

(And the point, of course, is that these men do not have a right to female spaces because they aren't female. They aren't excluded for a trans identity, they're excluded because they are male. Same reason the King, Kier Starmer, Martin Amis, your brother and my husband can't go in either. They can use the spaces for their sex or unisex spaces.)

To be fair, the fact that he's dead might be a bigger impediment to Martin Amis using women's spaces.

Yes I hear you. You are all far more well researched than me on the case. I just can’t find it in me to be that bothered about changing rooms when as women we are far more likely to face violence in our own homes from men we know. I’ve fought workplace misogyny in court, the detriment it causes me and other women is enormous. I think this particular issue, whilst valid for you and others, is not important enough to me personally to support a homophobic racist with a vendetta.

Here, if you don't boil of the alcohol (because you didn't read the recipe properly) it becomes soft serve:
https://www.browneyedbaker.com/date-rum-pecan-ice-cream-recipe/

Did you know, I somehow missed that happening. Didn't realise. I just glanced at the bookshelf and put down the first male author I saw. Aw!

Robert Galbraith, however, will be welcome 🌟

I think it was quite clear, especially given the badly doctored 'contemporaneous notes' that the one with a vendetta was the charming Dr Upton.

But I did do the pickled courgettes and they are bloody lovely.

i saved screenshots so here u go!
let me know how they turn out?

Women's rights do not, and should not, depend on the moral purity of the individual woman asking for them to be upheld.

She holidayed in Benidorm 🤣- hardly a place known for people who are easily offended.

What a snobbish pathetic comment.

All kinds of people holiday in Benidorm. If people like you don't, all the more reason to visit.

Well, she could hardly go to Malaga, could she?

I just can’t find it in me to be that bothered about changing rooms

Well, you do seem to find plenty of energy to argue with us about why you think we shouldn't be bothered either, so you clearly have strong feelings about it somewhere. I hope by now you realise that even if you're happy to strip off among strange men that you don't know, many other women aren't, including but not limited to traumatised or religious ones. And of course, we need other single sex spaces like prisons, sports, lesbian dating and so on.

It's very admirable that you are so concerned about domestic violence, so if you could help us out so we no longer have to waste eye watering amounts of time, money and energy fighting for the most basic right of all - to be properly recognised as a distinct sex class from men and not a feeling that men can identify into, which is the premise upon which all our other sex based rights rests - then we would be massively grateful and we can start trying to catch up on all the ground we've been forced to lose for 10 years.

@SqueakyDinosaur

I worked in the NHS for 18 years and saw just about every type of patient in that time. My thoughts among many were- well you're a bit of a Wally, when someone shot themselves in the hand with a nail gun because they wanted to see if it would hurt, to you despicable wanker , while attending to a drunk driver who had caused a multiple rta.
Not one person would have known what I was thinking as it didn't affect my professionalism.

I support the trans community, as the vast majority of them are wonderful people who have faced more hate than you or I could ever know.

And again with the 'marginalised, oppressed, hard done by' and the assumption MN's are privileged beings that have never experienced abuse.

The sweeping generalisations are astonishing.

I can't speak for any community as I don't personally know 'the vast majority'. I doubt anyone does.

It is closer to the crem, yes. If you drive down from the crem side, it's on the right-hand side as you head down the hill to the Vic and that's when I've seen it.

It was clearly unfinished the last time I passed, but I'll have a look tomorrow - I have a Vic appointment in the morning. The last time I saw it, it looked more like a half-built power station than a mosque - they were nowhere near getting the roof/cupola area completed and (naturally) the area around just looked like w.

I'm trying to visualise - I think it's set into a sort of hollow on the right hand-side. If you were only at the crem, I don't think you see it because of the hollow. (I too have had more reason to visit the crem and the Gardens of Remembrance than I would wish.)

I'm not to good at visualising - apparently might be to do with my ND - but it's as you go down the hill that has the petrol station, before you reach the pub. (The White Heather?)

I don't generally drive down that way - I use my bus pass to avoid the difficulties associated with parking at the Vic. I've no choice tomorrow, however, since my appointment is just after 9.

I've had a look at the mosque website and they're saying that the ground floor is finished but that they can't get the Building Certificate because "additional" requirements have been made by the inspectors.

Since said requirements apparently include finishing the electrical wiring, plastering, adding fire doors etc, I don't see how that they can be deemed "additional". There's also a requirement for disabled parking, which I would assume is standard for any public building.

Apparently, they've been doing a bit of work as and when they get the money. There's a film showing an update on the work in progress plus I noticed one of those money calculators. ISTR that they've only raised about a third.

There might have been fewer complaints if they had done the usual with regard to big projects and erected screens around with a pic of the finished product. Plus there's the fact that it's gone on for so long. I believe that the "build as the money is raised" approach has been the reason for the length of time.

And the inverse is also true

😂😂😂

Oops maybe I should be using another emoji.

I'm not quite sure what this one means anymore

Yes, quite.

@Igneococcus do I need to rinse them when they’ve sat salted for a while.