NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

I'm spending the break getting a bit emotional at the watching the Lionesses party. Heather Small is on.

More fun than the poor judge is having in his lunch break.

Nebulous Dogwhistle has vodka added. Sad Times is just the Irn-Bru and Coke.

You are steering the ship with precision worthy of a naval captain. I used to think your username had a nautical theme until the posts explaining the naughty bit!

I posted this on the previous thread and wondered what others thought:

Just thinking that if - and I'm not saying she is - IF SP was shown to be racist that could work in her favour here.

If she had a hatred of people from other races, or gay women (I know she doesn't) - had she asked to not be in a changing room with them? Was this 'hatred' enough for her to ask for separate changing areas?

Because if not, then it's not 'hatred' or bigotry that's driving the request to be in a separate changing room. It's something she has only done on the basis of physical sex - not race, not sexuality or anything else.

She was happy to share a changing room with anyone from any background despite how she allegedly might have felt about them, but not someone of the opposite sex.

Unless they're arguing she has an irrational hatred of all male people then this backs up the essence of her case.

NC has said there have been developments overnight. We don't know what has happened and it is possible we will never know. Given that this is coming via NC, the obvious possibilities are:

• the witness who was going to give evidence for SP about the group chat has pulled out. If that is the case, they will need to decide whether to use a witness summons to force her to give evidence
• more witnesses have come forward. This could be about anything - nurses unhappy with Upton in their changing room, someone who was at the meal referred to by one of yesterday's witnesses who wants to dispute their account, someone who has evidence of Upton making racist jokes, etc.
• something has emerged about the group chat - they've found messages that are helpful to SP or they have evidence that the chat has been manipulated and the jokes weren't posted by SP

But these are just a few wild guesses off the top of my head! We may find out in the next few hours.

A benidorm slammer?

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

But those other "bigotries" have been rejected by society. "Transphobia" is still up for debate. Nowadays it seems so clear that racial segregation (or just racism) is wrong and has no place in society but it wouldn't have seemed that way in the past. It remains to be seen how things will look in 20 years time..."of course people are who they say they are" or "of course men in dresses don't belong in female spaces".

This is my favourite so far.
It's definitely a very happy sort of drink. Maybe we can make it into an actual cocktail by adding some gin and calling it a Gina Slammer?

I just want one email that shows the group chat happened as that would undermine the witnesses.

Didn't see the point of the SM witness. The evidence itself is extremely flimsy and also seems a bit irrelevant. Unless NC is going to make a big thing in her submissions about the climate of fear and this is the best evidence she can get that attests to that. Or maybe there is some other reason.

Gin and orangina.

Cocktail…….surely a neogvaginatail…..

An UptonBoy?

.

Let’s hope Jim is coming back with proof of … something. Maybe that there is definitely a missing start to that e-Mail chain

The purpose of racial segregation was to deny a marginalised group their opportunities/freedoms whereas the purpose of sex segregation is to afford a marginalised group (women) protection (i.e. in the case of changing rooms) and opportunities (i.e. in the case of sports) that they couldn't experience in a 100% mixed society with no women's spaces. So they're not comparable really.

I ran to name change and had been beaten to it. Chapaeu.

🤣
And he's living in an UptonWorld??

Brilliant, thank you

NC is always three steps ahead. She is setting up that evidence to get it on the record to set the scene for the other witnesses later.

NHS Fife have been screening the personal mail of an employee they are in actual litigation with and who they are accused of discriminating against.

No idea what it will show but for example someone could have written to Sandy with evidence to support her case and NHSFife held it back or failed to send it on. We don’t know how long this has been happening.

There will be a point, it wasn’t worth having her say it - Sandie could have said that she hasn’t been receiving her mail later on the stand.

Sad Times would be a great name for a bourbon based cocktail. Best enjoyed with one of Dolly Parton's more morose albums playing.

Or a (Va)Gina Slammer

"Sandie Peggie called transgender doctor 'it' and a 'weirdo', tribunal hears"
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sandie-peggie-called-transgender-doctor-163746658.html

"nurse Sandie Peggie 'wanted to post bacon through mosque letterbox'"
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/society-culture-and-history/social-issues/trans-row-nurse-sandie-peggie-wanted-to-post-bacon-through-mosque-letterbox/ar-AA1JrbEd

Hopefully Kirkcaldy mosque will have extra security now and be on the lookout for any hate crime attacks.

There have been floods across Pakistan 280 deaths so far and a lot of destruction. Nurse SP has been mocking the dead with a racist aggravator- she said "sorry if that makes me racist" afterwards.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/pakistan-floods-death-toll-nears-280/ar-AA1JuTb1

For more context, Lawyer Jane Russell, representing NHS Fife and Dr Upton, said her husband Mr Peggie supported “extreme views”[regarding Islam and trans people]: https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5177656/nhs-fife-nurse-husband-tribunal/

Trans people aside, if she goes back to work as a nurse and has Muslim or Pakistani patients, how are they going to feel about knowing she hates them and laughs at them dying in tragedies??

I was surprised yesterday, on reflection, that after being very stern and directional to Counsel that only strictly relevant questions were permissible, Big Sond didn't then intervene at any point, especially during FW's evidence which was almost exclusively hearsay. I would imagine he's not best pleased, quite possibly with either side, with the absolute chaos that seems to be prevailing at the moment.

Upton is a boy
He’s been living as if Upton’s Beth
He’s denying that he is a guy
I bet his Med School never told him why
His chromosomes ensure he is mostly definitely a guy…