NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #46

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

But did the hearsay stem from the WhatsApp is what I’m trying to get at?

Oooh sarcasm 😂

NC using a good analogy ( hope that’s the right word) dead or alive.

Judge getting snippy

@FannyCann though I noticed that one of the blog writers appeared to have changed NC's male pronouns today (for the decidedly male Dr Upton) to female ones, which I thought misleading...

missed a bit of copying, here's TT transcript in reverse order as it appears:
Tribunal Tweets@tribunaltweets
41s
MC I dont know NC Going to move onto DSDs. KS had a lot to say. U seemed not keen MC I cldnt say why we're different. My knowledge is from med sch where we learn about DSDs. I relearned for my MRCP exams and Fellowship of Emerg Med. I may have learnt in more detail for my
Tribunal Tweets@tribunaltweets
2m
NMC code of conduct she cld be referred. No idea why I wrote it. At no time thought she had NC Its a big deal to be referred, tell colleagues this MC Yes, was no intent in my error typing the email NC What plausible way to make that error. It doesnt look like an autocorrect
Tribunal Tweets@tribunaltweets
4m
referrals. Or arising from other hearings. So other evid may come to light MC I understand NC U seem to be acknow a referral has been made. It's what u were told in a face to face mtg MC I never thought she had been referred. Pending the Ix results, if found if she'd broken

This typifies the 'never forget, never forgive' attitude that's so prevalent in progressive politics including of course transactivism. Does one incident make you a nasty racist person or do you look for wider evidence? Do you judge that a person is someone you wouldn't ever get on with on the basis of one episode out of their whole life? Are we damned by one sin, with no hope of redemption? Should we not look for evidence that SP was racist at work before gleefully saying that she should have been sacked years ago?

It doesn't matter whether any of us would get on with SP or want to be her friend. It does matter whether she is able to hold a boundary between her private life and her professional practice. As a reminder, we are seeing this case because Dr Upton wanted to collapse that boundary.

Same.

Waiting for the hammer to fall from NC

It's gone for me, too, now😒

One incident?????

Re: your last paragraph - I entirely agree. As I stated in my post.

Me. Also a subscriber.

NC U call them disorders of develop
NC Can u say e'one in here is alive
Yes
NC E'ne in hospital mortuary dead
Yes
NC Isnt hard to spot when s'one alive or dead
No
NC Is socially and clinically salient if s'one is alive or dead [explains further]
Yes
NC All true despite fact that if JR chose to fascinating evid about the moment of death and what is meant by death?
MC Sounds like a philosophical Q
J Answer the Q
MC The diagnosis of death made by an approp qualified death and decided clinically - pulse and signs of life with a stethoscope. Yes, is a binary state. But defn of death not that clear cut
NC Will try Q again as not answered. Asking u to agree that alive/dead binary is easy to determine and salient, despite the possibility of long discussions in this court

Pauses are the most interesting.....witness thinking.

Is there a right answer?

Brilliant, I think that is the way forward.

I think my problem is I cannot lie. It is the whole would you read someone’s diary if it was in front of you? Yes I would, I am
curious to understand people.

The actual question should be is reading someone’s diary the right thing to do morally? Then the answer is no. The answer depends on the question asked and the context.

I've closed it down in safari and reopened and signed in on DuckDuckGo but same blank blog page. Perhaps it's a technical issue their end.

OK I see where this questioning is going now. In the vast majority of cases these things are binary and the difference between the two binaries matters.

Feminism has been around a heck of a lot longer before the word became used.

I think the witness is losing the will to live.

Good.

Is death a spectrum?

Please never let me get admitted to Fife A&E.
Seems Currer would spend an age ruling out a potential dsd before deciding i'm female and eventually treating me.

at 1051 my most recent Herald is from 1041 ie ~normal

Ooo love the life and death analogy. That's great. There are grey areas and philosophical debate but in most cases no confusion and dead cannot become alive (although obviously the reverse is true).

At least she’s giving the questions some
thought, unlike LN yesterday. Saw someone describe her as ‘an energy saving bulb’ 🤣

Oh I miss the laugh emoji