NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #46

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

MC suddenly having recall issues. It was 18 months ago don't you know!

Where is NC going with this?

And also shows lack of proper process in dealing with this issue. It even goes beyond lack of transparency to actually hiding incriminating emails.

And just about everybody has called him 'he' at some point! Also wasn't he opne about his trans status from the beginning acc to somebody's evidence?

back to TT:

MC [missed]
NC Look at chain above on p276 on 18.01, ED says to DU [reads re progressing Ix wanting a statement] Clear ED is Ixing
MC Yes
NC U didnt raise the alarm that she shldnt Ix, as is a witness. Why was that?
MC Really dont know. was 18 months ago. Poss I didnt register it
NC Had FiM group decided better ED did IX
MC There was no WG. We werent in control of Ix and none of medical staff decision makers as person being Ix was member of nursing staff

I accessed the Tribunal with no difficulties on my iPad in February.

This time I've tried on my iPad and also on my iPhone - frequently at first but in the last few days just occasionally. I get no further the grey screen, which never changes.

It only works for me when using a desktop. With that I get the grey screen initially, but it turns quickly to the white screen with a crossed out video icon and the "Waiting For..." message. That changes to the live broadcast when the clerk lets me in. Unfortunately our only desktop is in DH's office, so he's kindly vacated it for me for several hours each day.

Have you another device to try?

ETA: I tried accessing using Chrome, Safari and Edge and Google on my iPad.

What a disgusting racist pos this woman is. Thoroughly unpleasant and it's tragic to see people trying to excuse it just because she happens to hate trans people as well as ethnic minorities.

MC thinking very carefully before she speaks in places

'I think a lot of people on this thread are quite naive as to the extent of'......not naive at all. Having worked in many different parts of Scotland, I hear and see racism a lot and it's disgusting whether it's a man or a woman, whether they are working class or upper class (and I've seen racism expressed by all of those groups).

Whether it's relevant to the ET is another matter but let's stop giving people a pass for racism, it is never acceptable.

NC Do u agree the FiM email was grossly improper thing to do?
MC I dont agree
NC Unwise thing to do?
MC U ask me to look at it w hindsight but didnt write w hindsight. At time was discomfort in dept due to incident. Was made clear not to discuss, and I felt important that sr members knew what was happening. If discussion we cld then direct ppl approp. Felt important to keep ppl up to date. wanted no errors to be made. I know I made an error saying SP had been referred. Other than that I dont think was incorrect to keep sr ppl up to date

Good question - who found that email

Unsurprisingly don't recall makes another appearance!

!

I am trying to catch up from yesterday:

Two quotes and my thoughts:

I would not have wanted to change in a room with Dr. Upton, however I would respect that they are trans and should be treated with dignity and respect.

What respect did Upton show to the other users - what about their dignity?

Having said all that, SP is obviously entitled to a sss to change in regardless of her views. What she doesn't have is the right to harass a transwoman who has been given permission to change in the female changing room.

We have seen zero evidence of her harassing a transwoman, who had assumed that he could use the female CR and had that assumption rubber stamped by his supervisor. We don't know whether he ever used the male changing rooms.

Looking nervous and rolling up sleeves at this question of when the email was found and who produced it.

Could anyone kindly post the nitter link, I’ve lost it

Many thanks - I'm on a ipad, which worked fine like you in Feb, but I have no desktop. Argghh. At least I have a reason for it... not knowing why is exasperating so thank you!

Interruptaron incoming.

nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

NC When did ED say she cldnt Ix?
MC I dont recall
NC How can u have thought it acceptable...the Cs lawyers didnt receive FiM email until 4 Apr. Were u the person who provided it
MC I undertook an email search. I think it was found by someone else. I found it but I dont know when I found it
NC U dont know if they already had it from s'one lese
Correct [not clear if spoken by NC or MC]
NC When were u asked to look
MC Dont recall but after the 1st hearing
NC Not until after Feb
MC Not that I recollect
NC Anyone searching wld find emails in 723?
MC Wld need to recall search term

The failure to disclose prior to Feb hearing is a big problem for NHSF.

Senior people - I see her flat hierarchy has disappeared. “Nobody to discuss this” doesn’t mean SENIOR DRS obviously!

All the excessive nervous bottle-pouring & drink sipping is getting on my nerves

Nitter.poast.org

Yes, they really didn't take it seriously initially. It would be stretching credibility to think that was by accident/poor search skills.