NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I don’t think that JR accused PB of doctoring the images. The accusation was that SP’s team had briefed him to look for evidence that DU had lied. That would break the rules of expert evidence I believe? I think an expert must be asked to look at evidence and comment on the findings - in this case the validity or otherwise of the forensic search and its findings. It was out of order what she claimed and she apologised.

JR then took issue with PB’s use of exclamation marks and the phrasing of a sentence (maybe 2?). Which was the evidential equivalent of rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic! He was criticised for expressing opinions outside of his own area of expertise.

Meanwhile the opinion of NHSF’s IT witness JB - that he was sure Upton’s wasn’t leading him up the garden path - which was ENTIRELY OUTSIDE OF HIS AREA OF EXPERTISE - was left to stand and has been widely quoted on the news. I’m a bit grumpy about that.

The media reporting doesnt really seem to give a good feel for how devastating this IT evidence is for Fife & Upton.

I think the Times will have someone there or online, someone from the Scotland section of the paper. I assume Alex Massie is keeping a very close eye on the trial.

Kevin McKenna reports in Herald of new ET looming with Margaret Gribbon instructing.

I wonder if coming out of JKR legal fund.

Also ‘trans activists supporting trans rights’ biles ma heid.

Mainly because it implies trans somehow have no rights and fighting for rights from no rights would be legitimate but these activists aren’t fighting for rights in that way. They want to destroy sex based rights.

I think it should be trans activists supporting seeking to remove sex based rights from Equality Act. Or something?

Any other suggestions?

There are some smart souls on eBay who are making a good income selling me 3-D printed parts to replace broken plastic clips/springs on kitchen bin lids and toilet flush mechanisms.

Mine still has his Warhammer bits. Plus plays Blood Bowl (I have no idea if its one word or not) in a league every week. Plus has all his childhood Lego and is encouraging the DC in their own Lego habits. Plus also has his own 3D printer.

I sometimes think our home is made of little plastic pieces...

51% are women
Always makes me wonder why we aren’t properly flexing that?

Oops I didn't realise @BezMills is a guy, been sending him a few ❤as thankyous trying not to fill up the threads

And have a lovely day out @nauticant !

@WeMeetInFairIthilien I was very green at one point, no plastic bottles for toiletries etc. DS started with the 3D nonsense and dwarfed my savings with his output. Wretched boy.

Still, he 3d printed me a hook to hang my compost bucket inside a cupboard door so he has his uses. @NebulousDog he has a good line in alien heads and other such items. He does do one practical line, but hobbyist items are his main focus. Massive swords, smaller skulls, tiny scarabs…

I'm trying to catch up on my real life at the weekend so hopefully there won't be 2 more complete threads by Monday morning.
Re: Monday's witnesses. I don't have their titles in hand but both are senior experienced nurses. Please tune in if you need to top up your outrage.

They feed off each other, KS is as much to blame as DU. Stella O'Malley has talked about friendship-groups of girls who take up a very "feminine" boy and the group treats him like a pet surrounding him with affection and attention and affirmation. The boy feels very flattered and included (maybe for the first time, though I doubt that's DU) Those were young girls, this looks like an adult version.

The Scotsman has a journalist providing live commentary each day.
I think the media in Scotland is doing not too bad a job (apart from maybe STV news)
But I think a lot of that’s because it’s the NHS. I’m not so sure there would be the interest otherwise

I've been sending @BezMills the occasional ♥️ as well. No harm in showing appreciation. 🙂

I SOOOO wish it had a bee, @BIWI . It would have made your username - BeeWee - so apt.

Ooh thats interesting.
What does he make on the printer?

Yes, despite his claims he was so considerate of the women that he just shuffled into a corner to undress and dress, without looking left nor right.

His logs/witness of the (live props/live role players) women in the women’s changing room, especially Sandie, not reacting/acting/engaging as he wanted seem to contradict this. He seemed to be very cognisant of the women in the room.

I would like to know why, when MC started waffling on about DSDs, that the judge didn't intervene to ask her to explain the relevance to this case?

Thank you - but what a teaser?!?!
I was hoping to get next week back for work… gah may have to work this weekend to justify more online Tribunal viewing

@BezMills we decided a few threads back that you were an honorary woman. Welcome to the team!

Who knows but I think NC will make mince meat out of it on Tuesday.
It will end up with yes there are xx xy and there are few others but they can all still be split into male and female.

Male is male regardless of the clothing.

Jeso woman don't be handing out the honorary woman cards now! That's part of the reason we're in this mess in the first place 😉

The Times does a decent job but although there have been one or two mentions in the comments columns, the main reporting is in the Scotland section which is rather buried in the online versions and I believe absent from the physical copies in the rest of the U.K.

Oh yes NC had requested 1 to 1.5 hours for cross examination of MC and that was before the waffling episode. I think Tuesday could turn out to be quite revealing.

I think @BezMills / the Fifer has something of the Hagrid about him. So he can be an honorary Hag maybe?

btw a few of the Fifeisms really stretched my brain to work out. Especially when I couldn’t say them out loud to myself (eg when following these threads on a packed train). It’s been very good for the grey matter!

I think someone from the Daily Mail is there, based on the accuracy of their article yesterday. It contained details that I thought were first-hand from the courtroom.

The first few days there were articles in the front section of the Times online but not the last couple of days. I was hoping they'd keep it there for the duration of the trial.