NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Right so its no bad thing that M Black has run into the sunset.
It does make me wonder if others at the top of SNP are starting to wake up and realise half the voters are women

Sounds very credible to me. There's SO MANY mediocre men who have used the cover of trans to be feted as stunning and brave. And all the bloody handmaidens, especially in the media have gone along with this. E.g. Lorraine Kelly fawning over Eddie Izzard, the disgraceful journalists in Women's Hour, etc etc...

Thank you.

I responded tonight to a FB post by a mate (I've known him since schooldays, we've lived together, etc) supporting the Zarah Sultana/Corbyn party. I said, I wouldn't support her because she is a gender-loon. He is a very smart guy, and honestly, our relationship is in a bit of a hiatus now for a few years. He mentioned to me the last time we spoke that 'actually, I'm more on JKR's side' in a half-hearted kinda way, which led me to think, those around him obviously aren't. Maybe, in the best of all worlds, this will spark a better contact between us.

This is probably over-sharing, but fuck it, I've typed it all out now!

Sounds very credible to me.

And to me.

i think he really went for sandie and he wanted a fight with someone as actual doctoring was boring. But I think it got out of hand beyond what he said and Kate seale etc wound it up further even than he wanted. Why did they do that. It was with his say so. But they all went for it big time with no evidence

Why did they all do that ? Kate searle, Louise curren etc? Because gender identity trumps everything. Apparently. It needs to stop!

De-lurking to say thanks for this. I rather like the look of Mr Borwick too.😍 If only because my DH’s jib is cut exactly like his when he’s at work doing his very serious information security job™️ and I rather fancy he might do a bit of expert witnessing of his own as a semi-retirement job in the not so distant future.

Seeing the Dr Upton in motion is completely different to the stills offered in the press too. No way could he be mistaken at even remotely ‘ladylike’.

Delurking to say yes, this indeed. He assumed SP would take the fall, safe in the knowledge there would be no consequences to his actions, just compliance and acquiescence.

Mine doesn't ( I just checked!). It doesn't record sex or gender. You can change your name but retain the same registration number.

You're very kind!

I haven't been in the TA or even cadets ( was a bladdy good Scout tho ). I think the inspo for my army bit was Heartbreak Ridge plus various documentaries about Marine and Para training, for some reason I find that intersting. I am a fitness instructor in my spare time, so boot camp training is interesting.

I am fully an old school Isaac Asimov reader, read everything pretty much - now reading the new gen : Banks, James SA Corey, Liu Cixin, tchaikovsky, Reynolds, Hamilton.

Don't do Warhammer anymore (30 years into my "plastic crack" recovery) but have a HUGE lego habit ( ok technically different flavour of plastic crack )

Also definitely a man (big loddie inside tho til I die)

Trans doctor altered notes after changing room row, tribunal told

https://www.thetimes.com/article/acee2324-aa12-453f-8fa1-6320d2446500?shareToken=02d1044336ba6ef3697ce680cda33311

Doing a much better job than STV news who appeark to be trying to ignore it. Nothing at all mentioned last night.

who appeark ? I meant "which appears" I should still be asleep..

They also keep using pics of SP as the index image, despite the fact the headline isn’t about her and it could be misleading (she is neither the IT expert nor, not the trans doctor). This could be because they have more fresh images of SP, as she is turning up to the tribunal every day. But the BBC also knows that people are far more likely to click on pictures of women than of men - maybe a tacit acknowledgement that people aren’t clicking on Upton (the audiences can tell he’s a man) so they are not going to use his image, even when it’s more relevant to their headline. The BBC tends to use images of women on it site like click bait but simultaneously isn’t actually that interested in them. The vast majority of its stories are about men and its news indexes tend to be populated by a line-up of male faces. Often the only time it uses pictures of women on its stories is when they are the victims of something horrific - that’s when the news editors suddenly get interested.

@BezMills have you checked your chromosomes? 😛

Thanks Nauti. As always.

Is it weird that I bounced out of bed 10 minutes ago thinking; 'I must go and see what all my friends on the thread are chatting about!' ?

I hope Sandie and her supporters are getting decent rest. I cannot imagine what a strain this tribunal is for her. She already knew she was being witchhunted- she must feel vindicated already, but so so so tired. And knowing that her colleagues were behind what amounted to a conspiracy (even if - taking the most generous of views- it was only due to incompetence and arse-covering) must be so devastating in and of itself.

@BezMills is a man?

I'm so used to almost everyone on here being female that I need a nice strong cup of tea to get me over the shock.

Bloody love Fifer. I was supposed to be working yesterday afternoon but was too busy crying with laughter to focus properly. Had to catch up later.

@BezMills my offspring swapped their Lego habit for a warhammer habit, then a 3D printer habit which is now paying for the damage caused by the previous habits 🤣 It’s become quite the side gig. Though now he’s feeding other people’s plastic habit…

Disappointed to see the Independent article is as disingenuous as the BBC and Guardian. References the racism smear and airs only one sides concerns.

Would it be unkind to ask how that’s going?

She is. Shes quite a verbally viscous TRA.

As mentioned earlier she says she wants to now work for Good Law Project.

She stepped back from being an MP a while back. No one really cares about her not renewing her SNP membership. Shes using it as an opportunity to drum up ticket sales for her Fringe show, they can’t be selling very well.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead That's so lovely, and I'm sorry to hear about your brother's difficulties. I think so many people who agree that TWAW simply don't know just how much they're agreeing with. My theory is that it is so obvious to the vast majority of people that TW are not in fact W that when they go along with it it's more of a shorthand for 'I'm prepared to act like TWAW in most situations'. Hardly anyone actually means it. So when they eventually discover that there are people who will take their kind TWAW and use it to say they support Isla Bryson being in a woman's prison, some random bloke getting changed with 14 year old girls at the local Nuffield or whatever they get a bit of a fright. I don't even know that it's that they haven't thought through the implications, or that the worst ones won't ever impact them (prison, sport, changing rooms), it's more that when they agreed TWAW, to go along with pronouns and so on, they thought it was a fairly non-committal way of showing they don't hate trans people, they didn't realise it tied them into all this nonsense. Because it is so obvious to most people that TWANW and never will be. They just agree to pretend, but they do still know it's pretend. And of course that's what the likes of Dr U can't tolerate, because they are desperate not only for access to all the spaces but for everyone to affirm them, whereas even people who agree to say it will rarely ever mean it. Now that really is sad times.

Apart from the Herald and the Courier, I wonder how which media orgs are present or watching the tribunal?

oh ouchy ouch, thank you for adding a new terror to my life. I've already had way too many encounters with hibernating wasps deciding to snuggle in unsuitable places (no waspie dear NOT my pillow, that never ends well), but never considered a booby-trapped loo roll. Unforgettable.